First Rights & Whether Or Not To Hide Your Works

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If you wish to retain your first rights you need to post your works on the workshop board. You're thinking: "But it's just fanfic, it isn't publishable." Well, it is if it's called a 'Work for Hire' or a 'Tie-in,' and you are able to get permission from the creators to have it published. (Your chances are slim, unless you're already a published author with clout and have a good following, so don't hold your breath.) Anything you write will have to go by their guidelines as well, so you'd most likely have to make a _lot_ of changes. Better to get their permission before you write it. That is, if you truly wish to have it published. Otherwise, write it and publish it freely on this open board, or on a website/blog somewhere. It's good practice for when you write your own works. And if you find a way to rework it into an original piece, you might be able to sell it. Ya never know. Still, don't hold your breath.

And really, if you're going to practice your craft by writing fanfic of works that are copyrighted, make it uber. Uber doesn't have to mention the television show/movie your characters are reincarnated from. And it's chances of getting published are much greater. Just edit out any stuff that connects your characters to their past lives as TV/movie characters, and you should be okay. You can recreate a new back history. You can even change their appearance a bit so that they don't resemble those characters as closely. (Not that that would make your original work unpublishable. There's only a limited number of eye/hair/skin color, etc.) Just don't give them identical details: scars, moles, tattoos, etc.

Mythology has been around for eons, so you can use that all you want, just give them your own unique twist, and don't copycat them from copyrighted books/television shows/movies you've read/seen. You can, however, copycat them from the original stories from eons ago. They're public domain. In fact, anything in the public domain can be used without a problem. And you can publish your works based on them. For example: Ella Enchanted (book & movie) and Ever After (movie) are retellings of Cinderella (and there have been many more retellings over the years). Both Robin McKinley and Gail Carson Levine have books that retell stories/tales that are in the public domain. So, if you're going to write fanfic, uber or otherwise, make it of characters/stories that you can use freely, and even might get published someday. And if you do that and post those works here for feedback, be sure to post them on The Sacred Nine workshop board to protect your first rights.

You can do internet searches on "Work for Hire" & "Tie-ins" to see what you can find. Such as these sites I found:

How I Ended up Writing a Tie-in Book for a Soap Opera!

I Am a Tie-in Writer

The International Association of Media Tie-In Writers

Search: Work For Hire

By all means, share the links to informative sites on "Work for Hire" & "Tie-ins" you found during your searches in this thread.

And thanks.

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By the way: You can retell the story of Cinderella with no problems, since it's in the public domain. However, you can't retell Ella Enchanted or Ever After as they are protected by copyright. You can't use any part of them in your retelling (without written permission from the writers). Well, you can, but you'd be sued and your reputation would be ruined.

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Works in the public domain can be freely used and anything you create using them can be submitted for publication.

CHAPTER 8. The Public Domain

Using Works in the Public Domain: No Need to Get Permission



Project Gutenberg


SurLaLune Fairy Tales

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Nothing published before 1923 is protected.

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Guest Blogger: Jane Espenson

. . . in television, almost always, you’re writing for pre-existing characters while emulating someone else’s writing style. I adore doing this. My favorite writing assignments in school were always of the form, “Rewrite a fairy tale as if written by Robert Penn Warren.” Lovvved it! It’s not bad to want to create your own characters and develop your own style, but if you can have fun manipulating characters and voices that are already in place, then TV writing will be really fun for you. I call it chameleonship. ~~ Jane Espenson

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Mini-Mia:

So . . . it would seem that writing fanfic is good practice for those who might have an interest in going into TV writing vs. novel writing. Good to know.

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Romeo & Juliet is a retelling of Pyramus & Thisbe.

Adaptations

The "Pyramus and Thisbe" plot appears twice in Shakespeare's works. The plot of Romeo and Juliet may draw either from Ovid's Latin retelling in the Metamorphoses, or from Golding's 1567 translation of that work. A comic recapitulation appears in the play A Midsummer Night's Dream (Act V, sc 1), enacted by a group of "mechanicals".

Google Searches:

Shakespeare

Mythology+Pyramus & Thisbe

Shakespeare+Mythology+Pyramus & Thisbe

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Wikipedia: Pyramus and Thisbe

More info here.

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Excerpt:

Retelling stories is as old as the hills. West Side Story is a retelling of Romeo and Juliet. A Thousand Acres is a retelling of King Lear. Some people claim there are only twenty possible basic plots, and everything is a retelling of something else.

Google Searches:

20 Writing Plots In Fiction

Fiction Writing+20+Twenty Basic Plots

Fiction Writing+How Many+Basic Plots

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The "Basic" Plots in Literature

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Shakespeare, the Bard of Avon, rarely came up with an original story. He took old plots and weaved his own particular magic with them.

Page 42; The Top Twenty Ways To Get Hundreds Of Plot Ideas,
(# 8. Stealing From the Best); Write Great Fiction By James Scott Bell

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Write Great Fiction
Plot & Structure: Techniques and Exercises for Crafting a Plot
That Grips Readers from Start to Finish

by: James Scott Bell

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The third book of the May Bird Trilogy caught my eye. It made me wonder if the writer had seen Xena, or was a fan. Or perhaps she came across Lucia's Little Xena artwork. If so, this is a good example of how to use someone else's creative work to jumpstart your own.

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By creating your own character/s and working them into a preexisting story (book, movie, TV show), you can learn a lot about your original character by their actions and back story in your fanfic and by their interactions with the copyrighted characters. You can then drag the copyrighted characters and your original character/s into a new original world (or story) you create, and then when you have it figured out, you remove the characters that don't belong to you and create original characters to fill in the empty places. Rework their back stories, change their names and appearances, etc. until you have a completely original work that in no way resembles the story (book, movie, TV show) you borrowed from. Make sure you don't leave anything in your story that is copyrighted to someone else.

Inspiration can come from anywhere. So if you're having a hard time coming up with something out of thin air, build on someone else's work/s until a spark ignites and sets you on fire. Then toss out what you borrowed from the other work/s and keep what is yours to build on to form your own original work. Unless the work is in the public domain. You can keep those characters and build around them. Let your agent/publisher know though . . . or you could even put a disclaimer in your book to let readers know.

Gail Carson Levine

Robin McKinley

There are other writers besides the two listed above who rework stories that are in the public domain. There isn't anything new about doing it.

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I bought a book and got it in the mail today:

The Monster Hunter's Handbook by Ibrahim S. Amin

- Part Two: Enchanted Steel -

On page 201 - was Sudarsana Chakra. The book doesn't mention the size, but who's to say how big Krishna's finger is? He could be larger than a mere human.

On page 203 - was Sun Wukong's Staff.

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Tie-In / Work For Hire Authors:

Ethlie Ann Vare

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Greg Cox

WikiPedia: Greg Cox

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Josepha Sherman

WikiPedia: Josepha Sherman

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Kevin J. Anderson
&
Rebecca Moesta

WikiPedia: Kevin J. Anderson
&
WikiPedia: Rebecca Moesta

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Max Allan Collins

WikiPedia: Max Allan Collins

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Fan-To-Pro

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Copyscape

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Public Sites To Share Works:

FictionPress.com

FanFiction.net

AdultFanFiction.net (18+ Only)

FanStory.com

Lists of Public & Private Sites:

Open House Thread

The Illusive Muse Thread

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The question was about what rights does a fanfic writer have? Does the original creations (plot, characters, etc.) of their fanfic belong to the fanfic writer, or do all rights of the fanfic belong to the creators of the characters/show/etc. ... even though the fanfic writer created the plot, other characters, etc.

Before you read AndrewCrossett's answer, read his warning:

Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: AndrewCrossett on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:03 am

... make it clear that it's not legal advice. Anyone who actually gets a warning or a cease-and-desist from a copyright holder needs to either comply, or hire a lawyer.

Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: AndrewCrossett on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:43 am

As a fanfiction writer who has also made a study of intellectual property law (mostly for a previous job I had as editor-in-chief of an entertainment website), I can tell you some things (but I'm not a lawyer.... if you get into any actual legal issues, you need to listen to one of them, and not to me.)

Writing fanfiction based on characters or properties you don't own -- even if you make no money off it -- is, technically, a copyright violation. The owner of the copyright can stop you if they choose to do so.

The exception is if your work is a parody of the original... but remember, just because your work is a parody doesn't mean you can't get sued over it and have to pay a lawyer to defend you against a huge entertainment megacorp with a platoon of expensive attorneys. If the copyright/trademark holder wants to sue, then it's the court that decides if your work is a parody... not you. And that process could take a long time and cost a great deal of money... which the corporation can easily afford, and you can't.

But... If your fiction is based on a corporate property like Xena, Buffy, Star Trek, etc., the chances are very slim that you'll ever have any problems as long as you don't try to make money off it, distribute it through commercial means, directly copy large amounts of copyrighted text, or falsely claim ownership of any copyrighted or trademarked stories or characters. Many fanfic writers include a disclaimer with their stories mentioning that the characters are owned by such-and-such a company or person. But I've never heard of anyone in recent times being sued by a corporation for writing fanfic based on their properties, as long as they abide by the no-profit rule. Most of them realize that fanfic (even the x-rated stuff) is very useful for building and maintaining interest among the most loyal and devoted segments of the fandom.

Fanfic based on a property owned by a single person (Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.) can be a different story.. some authors object to fanfic and ask that people not write stuff using their characters. Anne Rice is one example of this. In such cases you might get a nasty lawyer letter if the author finds out about your fic, possibly followed up by legal action if you continue. But most authors don't have a problem with it, for the same reasons the corporations don't.

Any story you write... even one based on someone else's characters... is automatically copyrighted to you as soon as you put it down in a fixed format (on paper, in a computer file, etc.). You can't copyright an idea in your head, which is why you shouldn't go blabbing your brilliant story ideas in Internet message boards or chatrooms before you've written anything down.

If you've written a story including someone else's copyrighted/trademarked characters, they can (if they want) force you to remove the story from circulation and stop using their characters... but they can't steal the story you've written for their own purposes. The story, as written, does not belong to them just because some of their characters are in it. This is why professional writers are supposed to avoid reading fanfiction based on characters they're writing... because they might subconsciously incorporate elements of a fanfic story into one of their own scripts and be open to accusations of ethical (if not legal) wrongdoing.

If your fanfic includes original characters, created by you, who interact with the characters you don't own, you still own your original characters 100% and the company or person who owns the copyrighted characters can't take yours from you.

AndrewCrossett

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Melissa Marr:

Also it's not out till fall, but wanted to toss a book rec out there: ASH (Malinda Lo). Very fab re-telling of Cinderella w lovely prose.

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Prada and Prejudice

by Mandy Hubbard

Fifteen-year-old Callie buys a pair of real Prada pumps to impress the cool crowd on a school trip to London. Goodbye, Callie the clumsy geek-girl, hello popularity! But before she knows what’s hit her, Callie wobbles, trips, conks her head… and wakes up in the year 1815!

She stumbles about until she meets the kind-hearted Emily, who takes Callie in, mistaking her for a long-lost friend. Sparks soon fly between Callie and Emily’s cousin, Alex, the maddeningly handsome—though totally arrogant—Duke of Harksbury. Too bad he seems to have something sinister up his ruffled sleeve…

From face-planting off velvet piano benches and hiding behind claw-foot couches to streaking through the estate halls wearing nothing but an itchy blanket, Callie’s curiosity about Alex creates all kinds of trouble.

But the grandfather clock is ticking on her 19th Century shenanigans. Can Callie save Emily from a dire engagement, win a kiss from Alex, and prove to herself that she’s more than just a loud-mouth klutz before her time there is up?

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LaurenBarnholdt:

OMG Prada & Prejudice by @mandyhubbard = CANNOT. PUT. IT. DOWN. Srsly. *goes back to reading*

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Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: AndrewCrossett on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:03 am

... make it clear that it's not legal advice.

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Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: ChelSierra on Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:43 pm

Andrew. I know that in some instances, a writer/author can use a certain number of words (short phrases/passages) from books, song lyrics, etc. without getting into trouble or having to get permission (pay a fee). What about dialogue from movies/TV shows? Would that be considered in the same category?

I'm pretty sure that works 'inspired' by other works is okay to publish. A lot of uber fanfic gets published all the time with no repercussions, that I've been aware of. The reason I ask is, I've been working on some poems that are 'inspired' by Xena: Warrior Princess, and only one has a bit of dialogue from an ep. The dialogue is pretty much paraphrased, but I waver on whether or not I could include it in a poetry chapbook. (Of course, that's if I ever try to get it published. I waver on that idea too.)

I didn't know if that was in with all your research or not, but I assumed it would be.

Thanks.

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Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: AndrewCrossett on Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:39 pm

ChelSierra: Andrew. I know that in some instances, a writer/author can use a certain number of words (short phrases/passages) from books, song lyrics, etc. without getting into trouble or having to get permission (pay a fee). What about dialogue from movies/TV shows? Would that be considered in the same category?

That's "fair use" and it technically applies only to reviews and works of scholarship. In a work of fiction you're supposed to get permission to use any amount of quoted text that's clearly identifiable as being from the original work. But you're not going to get in trouble for doing it in a limited manner in a not-for-profit fanfic. You can flash back to a conversation Xena and Gabrielle had in an episode of the series and copy a few lines of dialog. But you'd want to avoid verbatim copying of an entire scene that goes on for minutes.

ChelSierra: I'm pretty sure that works 'inspired' by other works is okay to publish. A lot of uber fanfic gets published all the time with no repercussions, that I've been aware of. The reason I ask is, I've been working on some poems that are 'inspired' by Xena: Warrior Princess, and only one has a bit of dialogue from an ep. The dialogue is pretty much paraphrased, but I waver on whether or not I could include it in a poetry chapbook. (Of course, that's if I ever try to get it published. I waver on that idea too.)

Uber fanfic is safe for publication (even for profit) as long as the characters are not actually Xena and Gabrielle... they have to be distinct enough from the TV characters that they're not a trademark violation. You couldn't have a character who's a brunette reformed warrior princess who wears leather armor, carries a chakram, and has a blonde companion who's a bard, even if you rename them Trudy and Michelle. But you can have characters with similar personalities, similar backgrounds and a similar relationship.

Publishing and selling a book of poems inspired by Xena should be fine as long as no trademarked characters appear in the poems... you shouldn't use the names Xena, Gabrielle, etc. because you'd be profiting off someone else's trademarks. Paraphrasing a conversation should be OK. Actually identifying the book as "poems inspired by Xena: Warrior Princess" might put you in a questionable area, since it might be seen as creating a derivative work. You might want to ask a copyright attorney before doing that.

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Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
Post by: ChelSierra on Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:19 pm

Thanks, Andrew. None of the poems mention any character names from the show, and only one has the paraphrased dialogue. And good to know not to put in the acknowledgments that the works were 'inspired' by Xena: Warrior Princess. Again, I still haven't decided if I'll publish them or hide them away in my closet, or post them on my blogs.

If I knew who to contact, I might even consider seeking permission to publish. If & when I finally made up my mind to publish. I'm guessing that publication of Xena books stopped due to lack of good revenue on the Publishing House's part. But now there's Lulu.com, (& similar sites), and if one gets permission, they could just self publish the work themselves. I don't know how 'tie-in' books work, but I'm sure there's someone that reads the manuscripts and gives dos & don'ts as to what can and can't be done, and then gives a yay & nay on when/if the final draft is ready for publication.

I know at Lulu.com, that if two authors collaborate on a book and both sign up at the site they can set up how the money is to be divided. 50/50 ... 60/40 ... 70/30 ... 20/80 ... etc. So if TPTB (of any show/movie) set up an account they would be able to get their percentage straight from the company. Not that they'd even consider doing this. But to me, it's a fairly cool idea on how to make money off of the really good/well written fanfiction. (And, no, I've never written any fanfiction. But I might consider doing so in the future if I knew there would be a profit in it for me.) ;D

Again. Thanks for the info, Andrew. I appreciate your time. (And now I shall stop hijacking Katherine's thread. Well, maybe )

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Re: Do Fan Fiction Derivative Works Writers Own Their Plots?
New Post by: AndrewCrossett on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:36 am

ChelSierra: Thanks, Andrew. None of the poems mention any character names from the show, and only one has the paraphrased dialogue. And good to know not to put in the acknowledgments that the works were 'inspired' by Xena: Warrior Princess.

It would probably be OK to say this as long as the poems themselves contain no copyrighted or trademarked material. I'd recommend getting a legal opinion on it, though.

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What is Shared World, Tie-In and Fan Fiction?
Posted on August 8, 2009 by Monica Valentinelli

Writing Media Tie-in Fiction
© Alissa Grosso
Jul 13, 2001

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From Dream to High Concept
by Catie Murphy

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Jill Myles: Free Stories

Zombie Fairy Tales

Beauty and the Zom-Beast

Little Red Rotting Hood

Moldy-Locks and the 3 Bears

Rapunzombel

Sleeping Zom-Beauty

Zombie Cinderella

The Princess and the Zomb-Pea

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Tuesday, September 22, 2009
Writing somebody else's story or characters

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The Tie-Ins that Bind
by Ari Marmell

Ari Marmell Tweet

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Steal This Idea
July 10, 2010
by Jennifer Crusie

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StoryWonk Daily 056: Giving It Away

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Work for Hire
posted by Lucienne Diver

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Legal issues with fan fiction

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When Does Fan Fiction Cross an Ethical Line?
by Jami Gold on March 6, 2012

Fan Fiction, Fifty Shades, Lit Crit
Fifty Shades of Grey Compared to Twilight
By Jason Boog on March 13, 2012 2:42 PM

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whooshorg.proboards.com/post/51781/thread

whooshorg.proboards.com/post/51782/thread

The Complete Idiot's Guide To:
Creative Writing (Second Edition)
by Laurie E. Rozakis, Ph.D.

Page: 29

5. "I don't have any original ideas. What could I possibly write about?"

Leonard Bernstein/Stephen Sondheim/Jerome Robbin's brilliant musical play West Side Story is a revision of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet ... which is itself a retelling of a 1530 Italian story by Luigi da Porto, which is itself a retelling of Masuccio of Salerno's 1476 tale of star-crossed lovers, which is a retelling of Ephesiaca, written in the fourth century by the Greek historian Xenophon.

Cole Porter's delightful musical play Kiss Me Kate is a reworking of Shakespeare's The Taming of [the] Shrew, which is itself a retelling of ... .

You get my point: Many of our most "original" ideas are creative reworkings of very old, traditional stories. So why not take an old plot and make it your own by adding an individual twist?

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http://instagram.com/p/B9DBkiNgkOu