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Post by rsine69 on Sept 11, 2009 22:49:10 GMT -6
About how to format my writings using Microsoft Wordpad.
How do I adjust the margins and were should I have it set at?
I know that lines have to be double spaced and that a page is about 25 lines. How do I separate the pages and chapters and how far down from a chapter title do I start the first paragraph?
Should I also write the chapter table of contents when completed?
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 12, 2009 0:16:16 GMT -6
Rick, check out this thread:
Guidelines - Format
There are also books on the subject:
Formatting and Submitting Your Manuscript by Cynthia Laufenberg
Formatting & Submitting Your Manuscript by Chuck Sambuchino
The two I have appear to be out of print.
About how to format my writings using Microsoft Wordpad.
I don't know anything about Wordpad, but I'll tell you how I do it in Word and you can see if it can be done in Wordpad.
In Word, I click on 'File' ... 'Page Setup' ... Set the margins at 1 inch all around.
I see it is the same in WordPad. Only WordPad doesn't have headers/footers. And WordPad doesn't have page/section breaks either.
Yes, lines are double spaced. The chapter title is about half way down the page, and the first line starts after a triple space. 1 2 Which leaves 2 lines between the first line and the title. Can do 3 lines though.
Also ... for now, it will be easier if you save each chapter to its own file, and then paste it all together into one file when you have it ready to submit.
Also. As far as you working on it, you don't have to fret with this until you're ready to submit. You can set it up however you want. To save paper, you can single space it and set the margins to .5 inches. After reworking the MS, you can print the newest draft onto the back side of an earlier draft. No problem.
So, if you're only working on your MS, you can figure this out as you go along.
You don't necessarily have to. Some books have them, and some books don't. However, if your chapters have titles, I'd recommend that you did. It's your call. And an agent or publisher might tell you if they think the book should have them or not.
Do you not like Word? There are free word processors out there. I think I might have a thread somewhere on my forum with links. Don't know where offhand, but will try to look later on.
Also. I can fix you up a Word template if you'd like ... or convert it to PDF ... to show you how I set up my MS. And ... if you do a search for "Formatting & Submitting Your Manuscript" & "Manuscript Formats" ... etc. you should find other suggestions.
Some say use 12 point Times New Roman, some say 12 point Courier New. If you plan on self-publishing, they say it should be 14 point or higher.
If I haven't answered all your questions, or if you have more, query away.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 12, 2009 0:32:01 GMT -6
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Post by rsine69 on Sept 12, 2009 3:16:34 GMT -6
Thanks Jox. This clears up a lot of confusion. I'm curious though, if I print the pages out, how do you bind them together? Also how do you do the word count? I've always assumed you just count the words themselves.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 12, 2009 17:51:29 GMT -6
First. Agents & publishers don't want the MS bound in any form. They want it left loose. Now, for at home, I staple the ones that aren't too thick, and the ones that are, I'll use a hole puncher and either put them in a notebook binder, or use those paper fasteners to hold it all together. I tend to do that chapter by chapter, just as I have them in their own individual files. It's easier to work with them that way.
Second. The post above yours has a page that helps with the word count. Some word processors keep up with word count, but they do it by the word, and not by characters.
For instance:
In one of my stories, Word says I have 1,153 words. But by doing as Chuck Rothman says to do, I find I have 1,584 words.
I have 1 inch at top, bottom, & sides. I use 12 point Courier New. I counted every character and space on the longest lines of each page. I took the biggest number and divided it by 6 to get true number of words per line. Counted the lines on every page. Multiplied the number of words per line against the number of lines. Multiplied that by the number of pages in the document.
Say the longest lines of the pages goes like this:
64 60 59 62
Take 64 and divide by 6. (Most words are 6 characters long.) You get 10.6666666666666 so round that out to 11.
So you have 11 words per line.
Except for the first & last pages, which can differ from the rest of the pages, all my pages have 24 lines. And according to Chuck Rothman, the first & last pages should be included in the mix when totaling the word count.
So:
11 wpl x 24 lpp x 6 pages = 1,584.
wpl = words per line lpp = lines per page
So, whatever font you use, do the same. Find out the true words per line, and the number of lines per page. Multiply them by each other and then by the number of pages. Your wpl & lpp should remain the same if you use the same exact format on every document.
Of course, the lpp will change when you switch from double space to single space. But when you single space, the lines per page should stay consistent throughout, so that number should remain the same as well.
At one time I would total the lines on the first & last page and add them to the count:
11wpl x 24lpp x 4 pages + total from first & last page. (330 words)
Page 1 = 13 lines x 11wpl = 143 words Last page = 17 lines x 11wpl = 187 words
143 + 187 = 330 words
But the article said that the first & last page would count as full pages, so I just include all the pages in the count now. (And if you're getting paid by the word, you get a larger paycheck. )
Also. I wish someone had told me this many a year ago, but, when doing rewrites/revisions ... save to a new file so that you can have access to stuff you took out should you want to put it back in. Such as:
Chapter 01-01 or Chapter 01 - 09 9-12 Chapter 01-02 or Chapter 01 - 09 10-29 Chapter 01-03 or Chapter 01 - 09 12-01
Also. After major revisions, or after several small ones combined, print the document out. Should your computer get fried, you'll have hard copies to use to retype everything to a new computer. And if only some files are lost, you'll still have others, and will have less to retype into new files. If you have an old broken refrigerator or freezer, you can keep those printouts in a safe, fireproof, container.
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Post by rsine69 on Sept 14, 2009 0:43:02 GMT -6
So if you have 13 lines on the last page, would you count that as 24 too? And when you're counting words, do you count the punctuations and the spaces within that line and would you also include chapter titles in your line count? Still confused plus I REALLY HATE math!
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 14, 2009 1:06:12 GMT -6
I count every letter, number, punctuation, & space of the longest line on a page, and then divide by 6. -- You only need the total from one line to get the words per line. The title usually isn't the longest line, so you don't have to use it to get the word count.
And yes, every page is counted as full, even though it isn't. So, if you have 6 pages, you multiply that by the number of lines, and number of words per line. That would include the titles.
All word processors should be the same. So, if you use 12 point Courier New and 1 inch all around, you should have 11 words per line. Now, you just need to know the number of lines per page. Each page should have the same number of lines, and if you double space, and have a header, & 3 spaces down, then you should have 24 lines.
Double-spaced MS:
11 wpl X 24 lpp X Number of pages = #####
This should be all you need.
If you're using Times New Roman, I'll have to make a switch and calculate it to see what you get.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 14, 2009 19:10:01 GMT -6
Okay, Rick. Here is what I have for you:
Same Exact Manuscript
1 inch margins: top, bottom, sides -- 12 point Courier New --
Double Spaced
11 wpl x 24 lpp x 6 pages = 1,584
Single Spaced
11 wpl x 47 lpp x 4 pages = 2,068
1 inch margins: top, bottom, sides -- 12 point Times New Roman --
Double Spaced
16 wpl x 23 lpp x 5 pages = 1,840
Single Spaced
16 wpl x 46 lpp x 3 pages = 2,208
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 14, 2009 19:13:54 GMT -6
I didn't round the number of words off though, so here it is again:
1 inch margins: top, bottom, sides -- 12 point Times New Roman --
Double Spaced
17 wpl x 23 lpp x 5 pages = 1,955
Single Spaced
17 wpl x 46 lpp x 3 pages = 2,346
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 26, 2009 20:03:17 GMT -6
Thanks Jox. This clears up a lot of confusion. I'm curious though, if I print the pages out, how do you bind them together? The author is working on the draft of a work-in-progress, so that is why it is in a binder. Otherwise it wouldn't have holes in paper, and it would be kept loose.
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Post by rsine69 on Sept 30, 2009 0:01:51 GMT -6
Another question. How do you properly format dialog between characters? For me, telling a story is the easy and fun part but figuring out how to properly format everything is giving me headaches on top of headaches.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 30, 2009 0:36:29 GMT -6
It's exactly the way you see it in the books you read:
"Hey, how's it going." Jamie said as he jogged up beside me.
"It's going okay." I acted cool. No way I was letting him know I was in shock. "How's it going with you?"
Try typing some of the dialogue from several books into a doc to get the feel. Actually, I've seen various recommendations for typing whole chapters & books into a doc to learn writing from published authors. (I haven't tried it myself yet though.) Even go so far as to rework the sentences & paragraphs into better & worse prose to get the feel for editing.
If that doesn't answer your question, ask again. I'm a bit sleepy and ready to hit the hay, so I may have misunderstood the question.
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