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Post by Lesa on Aug 31, 2004 17:14:40 GMT -6
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Post by irenetheserene on Aug 31, 2004 18:23:42 GMT -6
Gee and wasn't it Bush who made a crack about the Iraqi's protesting after Saddam fell. He called it "freedom"; "exercising democracy". Irene  . |
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Post by Lesa on Aug 31, 2004 21:31:43 GMT -6
Oh, so it's freedom and democracy when they protest against their dictator, but not when we protest against our own dictator? The other big news today is how Bush miraculously changed his mind today concerning the war on terrorism. Yesterday he said: Then today he changes his tune and says that we will win. The republicans talk about how Kerry has changed his mind on certain issues, while Bush does a complete 180 on the thing they're basing most of his campaign on in less than 24 hours. Kinda reminds me of how he said that without a doubt, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction and used that for the sole excuse of attacking Iraq, then later blamed faulty intelligence, yet still says we needed to take Saddam down. Did you all SEE the Republican national convention last night?  I caught about the last hour of it and saw how they were using 9/11 to try and keep him in power. I'm sorry, but if he had done his job when he was given that memo on August 6, 2001 ( Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US), I highly doubt that 9/11 would've happened. Not only did he not tell airports to increase their security when he heard that "Bin Laden wanted to hijack a US aircraft," but he continued reading to some kindergarten class for 45 minutes after he was told that New York and Washington had been attacked! (Not to mention that it took him 3 days to visit ground zero). Oh yeah, he seemed real torn up about it, didn't he? He really jumped up and took charge when the attacks were happening, not knowing whether or not more attacks were coming.  And now he's using the victims of events he could have prevented to further his campaign? That's just sick. Any respect I had for Giuliani has gone out the window, too. He stands up there trumpeting Bush's praises, saying "Thank God that George Bush is our president, and thank God that Dick Cheney, a man with his experience and his knowledge and his strength and his background, is our vice president."Let's not forget that Cheney was secretary of defense when we were giving arms and military training to the Taliban, and Dubya's daddy happened to be Vice President at the time. Oh yes, thank God we have suppliers of terrorists running our country. And Giuliani blames other countries for supporting terrorism. Oh yeah. Secretary of Defense Cheney supplies arms to the Taliban and trains them, but Germany and Italy are the ones supporting terrorism. And here we have that typical chauvenist attitude that seems to echo Bush's apparent belief that women aren't sacrificing themselves just as much as the men: Giuliani said last night:Dubya, Feb 10, 2003:There is so much more I could say right now, but I should probably pace myself.  |
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Post by eirene on Sept 1, 2004 12:59:42 GMT -6
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Post by Gabbin on Sept 1, 2004 22:37:05 GMT -6
I miss the Olympics, and turned on the t.v and saw RNC all over the place. So, I listened a bit and am going to get some thoughts down on that while I wait for my Adobe file to download.
So, I saw Zinnerhoof something-a democrat for Bush. Traitor. He brought up some interesting points and I try to be diplomatic (being a Liberal Libra).
Liberator vs Occupier. He felt we Dems see Bush as Occupier and the US as bad. But I think it is a mix and always is. This is a fine line. If you are invited and the human conditions are such that it is unbearable then, I can see helping out, ala Somalia. However, I don't believe that the Iraq conditions were that bad. No worse than say, Cuba. It also has to do with the view of not only us but the people whom we are invading. How do they see us? And the surrounding countries of our world, not just how we view it.
The other thing he brought up was the military being the reason for free press. I just don't think so. It is way more complex and freedom of press and expression came from the minds of people who wanted to be free, it was not created by the military in my mind. That point just doesn't make sense with me. When people say our freedom comes from our military. Nope, I think, it comes from each one of us thinking it, using it as well as working, paying taxes (going in part to the military), volunteering as well as the military. So many people put their lives on the line each day for our freedoms not just military types. So to me it is a group thing and freedom of press is from Ben Franklin and Co., upheld be each one of us.
Other than that I just cannot watch much of any political convention. There is so much weird words and thoughts flying around they all seem way off. Just scares me-the propaganda.
Okay, and that is why I rarely watch news or t.v. at all. I need a drink now.
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Post by Gabbin on Sept 1, 2004 22:49:41 GMT -6
And may I clarify (I am tired) by invite I am referring to past wars where we were asked to assist allies. Although even that is something to consider deeply. And Iraq not being so bad, I am thinking of the Killing Fields. There are and have been many other countries much worse in this area....and we didn't do much to stop it.
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Post by Lesa on Sept 1, 2004 23:16:37 GMT -6
Eirene — We seem to be moving into a dictatorship more and more every day, and if Bush isn't voted out of office this year, I know we'll have even more rights taken away. G-Stick — You bring up a very good point, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. While I believe that Iraq was already living under bad conditions before our occupation, I also believe it has gotten much worse there because of us. Our presence there isn't helping them right now. It's making it more dangerous for the people who live there, because the ones that don't trust us feel they are protecting their country by attacking their occupiers. I agree, it was wrong of us to go over there uninvited and try to dictate how they should live their lives, and I don't blame them for not trusting us. Thanks to our occupation of their country, their own citizens can't even walk down the street without having to worry about getting shot or blown up. Their cities are still being destroyed in all the fighting, and many of them have no electric or water. And Dubya considers that freedom.  And I'm not saying this as a Democrat, because I have no affiliation with any political party. I say this as a free thinker, who listens to all sides before coming to the inevitable conclusion that our current administration is full of nothing but BU**SH**. |
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Post by Lesa on Sept 1, 2004 23:58:53 GMT -6
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Post by eirene on Sept 2, 2004 10:20:42 GMT -6
  In my Country ( GDR ) the people ( really all people ) goes every MONDAY on the street to demonstrate against the dictatorship. The slogan was always " We´re the people!!!" With this peacefull Mondaydemonstrations the wall falled down and the dictaorship came to an end. Now the people demonstrate afgain on mondays, ´cause our goverment make the poor people even poorer. A naket man has no suit with money in his bags. It´s a german saying. I feel with you, if your country is on the road to this, where i comming from...Thats a reason to cry. Eirene |
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Post by irenetheserene on Sept 2, 2004 10:40:05 GMT -6
How convenient that Cheyney's gay daughter was not there but Mrs. Cheyney and Mr. Cheyney emphasized several times how many grandchildren they have and then they paraded their one daughter, her kids and husband on the stage after Cheyney spoke. JUST A TERRIBLE REPRESENTATION of the delusional life they live. Anyone not following the election who has tuned in this week could make a decision based upon the acting everyone did to promote thier lies. I guess this is how you get votes in this country whem most people really aren't following what is going on. It's a good way to snooker the country. Just brilliant! ;D Irene  |
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Post by Scrappy Amazon on Sept 2, 2004 19:28:20 GMT -6
I believe wholeheartedly, that because of how americans are raised and how we live our lives, that our country will never get to that point. It may get close, but we always manage to pull it back from the brink. We are strong willed, intelligant people. And we don't like having our freedoms trampled on. Even if, god/godess forbid, we have to put up with GW Dorkboy for another four years  we will survive and pick up the pieces after he screws everything up. |
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Post by Gabbin on Sept 2, 2004 22:37:12 GMT -6
True, Scrappy, we survived Vietnam and Nixon and an expensive cold war. Still an eternal war and occupation with Iraq is something I dread but may be inevitable. We still have bases in Germany and Japan.....and those aren't popular, either. Iraq may be a whole different story, though.
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Post by Lesa on Sept 3, 2004 4:13:43 GMT -6
I didn't watch the convention last night, but I heard something about his gay daughter not attenting. I agree, it's real convenient, and there are a LOT of people who don't know what's REALLY going on. Like Dubya said, "Sometimes it's hard to tell it when you listen to the filter." Unfortunately, "the filter" seems to be working in his favor, not against him like he would like people to believe. Ted and I were recently talking about how surprised we are that Bush still has as much support as he does, and then it hit me that not everyone actually looks for information from all sides before making up their mind about something. Now, I don't have cable and haven't seen a lot of CNN, but from how the kid in the following story mentions CNN being conservative, it makes even more sense; because a lot of people get their world news from CNN, and if they're towing the Republican party line, then of course they're going to make it sound like Bush is doing a good job. Maybe we should boycot CNN. Last night, I waited on the most delightful young man at the grocery store after 10pm. I caught him yawning and said to him, "Looks like someone's getting sleepy." He had two packages of donuts, so I added with a chuckle, "A little pick-me-upper before bed?" He said he needed something to keep him up for the Republican National Convention. I paused for a moment, then he went on to say that he didn't agree with any of it, but thought it was good for laughs. I just said "YES!" with one of those gestures a person makes at a slot machine when they've just hit a big jackpot.  So then I just HAD to ask the question, "If you don't mind my asking, how old are you, anyway?" He's 12! I asked him if his parents were Democrats or Republicans. He said his dad is very Republican and his mom is very Democratic. I said it's amazing that they haven't killed each other this year!  He said they all ripped each others' throats out over which station they were going to watch the convention on... Fox or CNN... because one is liberal and the other is conservative!  I said they should watch one and tape the other, and he agreed. That was more info than I needed to give to get to my point, but it was just so cute I had to share! My whole point with this is that even a 12-year-old can see the truth if he's looking for it; and with his parents supporting opposing sides, I'm sure he has heard enough from both sides to see what's really going on. Now... As for the direction our country is heading. I agree that with the way we have grown up in this country believing in freedom, there's only so much of it that can be taken away before we fight back. Thousands of protestors have already fought back in NY this week, just as I would have loved to do. But I fight back in my own way, telling people what I know, trying to get Bush supporters to see the truth. Now, if Bush is President for another four years, I expect there to be a lot more demonstrating all over the country than there is right now, after more people have begun to realize just how many of their rights are being taken away. And IF he's elected back into office, I suspect that people will be so turned off by our current administration that they may even go so far as to vote more liberal the next time around just to counteract what Bush and the gang have done. Of course, I might be wrong about that, just as I was wrong in thinking that Bush would have less support than he has right now. But all in all, we won't let them continue to take our rights away. The American citizens who walk around with blinders on today will eventually see the light before 2008, if we have to put up with this administration for another 4 years. I just hope it doesn't come to that. Eirene, I think it's wonderful that you can demonstrate, and we need to do more of that here for the same reason! The rich get richer and the poor get poorer here as well, and all these tax breaks Bush keeps signing is only widening that gap between us, making it more and more impossible for most of us to gain any kind of financial stability.  |
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Post by irenetheserene on Sept 3, 2004 7:35:46 GMT -6
The RNC was a show last night complete with Oscar Music. I thought I was watchng an awards show. And then the little film of President Bush who thinks he's the character from "Field of Dreams" (Yes, the comentators beforehand even mention that theme of who Geoge thinks he is). They had him out there standing on the mound throwing a pitch into the catcher at some game after 9/11 and made this bigger than life characterization of him. I wish I had taped it. It was so pathetic. And what's more pathetic is to look at the people in the audience looking at this man in complete awe! SCARY and delusional. Then there's his speech which we all know he didn't wirte. It was written by that woman of his from Texas (oh what's her name). It's her words not his giving him a personality. It's sickening!  And then you have the Liberal? Republicans give the speeches. You know the ones who don't agree with him on the Marriage issue and the right to choose issues. The ones that are popular with the public who are misrepresenting Bush's policies to reel in all the unsuspecting saps for a vote in November. Yes, and again not Cheyney daughter that is gay. Only the daughter with the husband and baby are permitted to be paraded around. Talk about flip flop! Pretending to live a life one way when in reality Cheyney's life isn't that way. It's sickening! It was all one big show of lies. What is really scary is listentng to Bush talk like some world takeover dictator pushing his agenda that the US will fight terror anywhere but on our own US soil and that we will do it when we want to to keep it terror away from our country. And that we will take the lead of promoting "freedom" in other countries. He's sounds like a scary person. I can just see those leaders over in Russia and Red China making their plans against us. Actually Bush sounded like Caesar in Ides of March. "I declare myself....". Scary man. Irene |
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Post by Lesa on Sept 3, 2004 21:56:58 GMT -6
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Post by Lesa on Sept 3, 2004 22:15:00 GMT -6
I just had to correct myself on this. Apparently he was talking about FOX being conservative, not CNN.
As you can see, I also don't watch much FOX, either. I mean, why get all into a really good show, just to have FOX pull the plug on it?
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Post by Phalon on Sept 3, 2004 22:59:44 GMT -6
Sigh...I am one of the uninformed who has not watched any of the RNC. Partly because my mind is already been made up, (and has been for pretty close to four years), and partly because it's like coming upon a train wreck - it turns my stomach.
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Post by Lesa on Sept 4, 2004 0:30:13 GMT -6
I can't blame you there. I only watched a small portion of it, and all the lies made me want to reach through the monitor and slap the speakers. I've been spending some time at MoveOn.org, and they've been trying to get the FCC to take legal action against FOX NEWS for falsely advertising their supposedly "Fair and Balanced" reporting. I recommend that people visit MoveOn.org, because it can give us all some good ideas on how to get involved, and has email petitions for things like getting the FCC to come down on FOX and getting Congress to censure Bush for all his lies. Also, for snail mail addresses of your Congress men and women, visit Congress.org. Be sure to spread the word!  |
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A1ecto
Whooshite Apprentice
Posts: 101
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Post by A1ecto on Sept 4, 2004 9:39:31 GMT -6
Bush makes me laugh.
Considering more people protested his lame war than Vietnam... come on. Really. What happened to Government by the people, for the people?
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Post by Scrappy Amazon on Sept 5, 2004 0:17:42 GMT -6
Yeah, right. I think that went out the window when the supreme court essentially appointed G.W. Dorkboy to office.
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Post by Lesa on Sept 5, 2004 1:21:21 GMT -6
Well, sort of. But I would say it actually started with Jeb Bush and Kathryn Harris et al, and the disenfranchising of 91,000 voters who were likely to vote for Gore, helping Bush to steal Florida by a 537-vote margin. That, in turn, enabled the Republican-appointed Supreme court justices to appoint Dubya, which was just the final nail in our coffin. That was Government by the people going out the window.
Ever since then, Government for the people has been constantly thrown out as well.
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Way to go! 
