X&G's Relationship: Dysfunctional or Healthy?

[Mini Mia]

Some see Xena and Gabrielle's relationship as dysfunctional. What do you think is dysfunctional about their relationship ... and what do you see as healthy? Could their relationship work if the show was real life?

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BTW: I don't see Xena & Gabrielle as a couple, so this thread isn't a debate on are they or aren't they. This thread is about what to you is dysfunctional in their relationship, and what to you is healthy. If they're a couple to you, fine. If they're straight to you, fine. No pushing/proving one view, no bickering about who is right, and no bashing of an opposing view.

If it bothers you that others don't see the couple's relationship the way you do, try and think of it as I do: My Xena & Gabrielle are from a different parallel universe than those who view them as a couple. Also, if you do see something in their relationship that 'proves to you' that Xena & Gabrielle are straight/a couple, simply state that's what convinced 'you' that they're straight/a couple, not that it should be proof to 'everyone else' that they're straight/a couple.

Okay, if I haven't scared you off, comment away.

[vickiej]

The relationship evolved. Gabrielle went from being tolerated as a sidekick who was tolerated as she tagged along ,to a good friend, and finally to the point where each was the dearest person in the world to the other. Yes, at times it was dysfunctional, the Rift arc, but forgiveness and caring won out.
When Gabrielle appeared to give up her life by taking Hope out and thereby saving Xena who refused to believe she was lost forever, was when the relationship turned into the strong, positive one we know. Not that there were not a few bumpy spots, but all relationships have those.

[Senara]

I've been thinking on this one. Not really sure - it seems to go both ways. They both push each other and had to work to keep their relationship. I think Gabrielle evolved much more than Xena did, but she was also younger than Xena was.

As for what in particular is dysfunctional, I'm sure I can give examples after I sleep on it.

[xenawp7706]

Yes I think it was a bit disfunctional because they were the opposite when they met. Gabrielle an innocent girl, Xena a person with a bad past behind.

[Meg]

Could their relationship work if it was real life? My answer to that question would be yes. I personally have 2 friends to where we (me and each friend) are as close as Xena and Gabby. Though things became a little bit difficult when each got engaged and married to their husbands and had children, but we're still close like that. Making time for one another has also become a bit difficult too, but we find a way. Though my 2 friends have never met each other, but hey. No secrets. Like Xena and Gabby I also tell my friends that I love them, and vise versa.

Was their relationship dysfunctional? At times, I think it was. There were times when Xena would brush Gabby off, or brush her aside. Including a few of her opinions. Xena taking her top because she ran out of rope, using the pan to fight instead of her weapons, using the scrolls cause of no good leaves. I don't think any of those things help a friendship too much. Aren't you supposed to respect your friends and their things?

Both did of course have a lot to learn. What they needed to learn they ended up learning from the other.

What was healthy was when one got in a rough spot and needed the other to help get out or both were having a hard time and had to rely on each other. That in turn brought them closer. In my opinion they went from putting up with each other, to friends, to loving the other as if they were sisters. No matter how much family bothers you and stresses your limits, love wins out.

[stepper]

I think Vickiej is bang on with her answer. My objections to the rift run deep - but also come at least partly from who I am. No way could I personally get past that kind of misadventure - not even if I was feeling sorry for myself and already in some deep funk mood. Forgiveness and caring won out in the show because that's what the script said happened. IRL I just don't see it happening. I came across some youtube links where - in the first one - LL and ROC are talking about X:WP and some of the scenes. Owing to my slow delivery rate I've only seen the first one so far - but I get the idea they both saw their characters as good friends who over came adversity.

[Meg]

I watched those on youtube last year I think. As always my brain is a little fuzzy.

Maybe for you, Stepper, you don't see it happening in real life, but I speak from experience that forgiveness, caring, and love wins out. My friend and I went through a very rough patch once (to put it very mildly), and eventually we became friends again. Better friends, and closer too.

We didn't do anything like the Gab drag, but to be honest with yall I was angry and hurt enough that I had very awful thoughts.

[stepper]

I'm glad for you that you have managed to retain the gentle part of your soul Meg. I just don't think that two people could intentionally do that much damage to each other, mix in the recent death of their children for which - one way or another - they held the other accountable, and then so quickly move past the experience with nothing more than a sing song resolution that only pointed out that the whole thing started with a lie. If you can see yourself getting past all that then you are the kind of friend we all need - unfortunately I wouldn't be near the top of your best buddy list.

[Phalon]

...and then so quickly move past the experience with nothing more than a sing song resolution...

Hey, Stepper...you mentioned the "sing song resolution" in another thread. Just curious...was it the musical format of "The Bitter Suite" that you didn't like, or the resolution presented in the episode that made it unbelievable for you?

I dunno. I've always viewed The Bitter Suite, which I liked, as an an operetta; the music was only a means in which to tell the story. I didn't view it as Xena and Gabrielle falling into a magical place where everyone actually sang their troubles away in a Wizard of Oz Wonderland style technicolor dream, (although Callisto woulda made a good White Rabbit, and Joxer the perfect Cowardly Lion). In addition to the obvious use of Tarot symbolism, I felt everything in the entire episode was symbolic; nothing was as it seemed or was to be taken literally, (I'd have to watch it again for specifics - as I mentioned elsewhere, it's been years since I've seen it).

I read once that The Bitter Suite was the show's deus ex machina; the way out of the corner they backed themselves into with the Rift Arc. And if you think about it, even the use of a deus ex machina was kinda a brilliant play if you take into consideration how and where it was used. Rob and the writers were always weaving bits and pieces of symbolism into the series. Afterall, the ploy of using a "deus ex machina" originated during the Greek Tragedies, and what, if not a tragedy in Greece did our heroines befall during the rift?

Just wondering if it was a drama played out without the singing, if you would have like the resolution presented in The Bitter Suite better.

[stepper]

It may well have been their dei ex machina for the numerous unresolvable story threads, but I found their solution incongruous. I didn't object to the musical per se - Kevin Smith was a surprise - but their resolution was inadequate. After spending months dragging out the distruction of the relationship of our erstwhile heroines, we are to believe they achieved in a single show an unobjectionable conclusion. They may believe consummatum est, but for me, their solution and platform in which it was presented was not a homogeneous mixture.

With or without a musical I would have objected because the rift never should have been allowed to start or fester for so long.

[robinton]

I know this is an old thread, but it did interest me.

One can not look at the show and judge their relationship. The show itself only shows little "blurbs" of their time together. Of what we have seen, I would like to make the argument that this is not the healthiest relationship; one that I do not believe would stand the test of time.

Xena: This is a woman who never really got the chance to grow up in an emotional sense. SPOILER ALERT! If you watch "Is there a Doctor in the House" (Season 1, episode 24) we see Xena's reaction to the death of Gabrielle. We watch Xena refuse to accept the death of her best friend. Had Xena not "invented" CPR (and it was not CPR she did... She actually did what is called a Precordial Thump. This would only work in a very certain type of heart attack called Ventricular fibrillation) it is very likely that people would have had to try and drag Xena away from Gabrielle's body. This is a rather emotionally immature reaction to a loved ones death.

Gabrielle: This is a woman who has had the emotional maturity that shows she had a loving family that let her mature emotionally. In the episode "The Greater Good" (Season 1, episode 21) we see the death of Xena. Gabrielle's reaction to this is far more emotionally mature. She see's the death, says her good-bye to Xena, go's out and beats up a tree, then accepts her death and moves on. This is not something that Xena was willing to do. (move on, I mean)

I believe in real life, we would see Gabrielle move on to another friend/lover. I believe that the relationship could not endure long. In my mind, it would be difficult for both people to understand and relate, emotionally, to the other person.

These are my own personal beliefs.... Nothing more.

[Phalon]

Hello, Robinton, and welcome to Whoosh.

I don't necessarily agree with the examples you've given as to why the relationship wasn't a healthy one.

People handle the death of loved ones differently - even the same individual will most likely react differently to deaths of different people they love. There is no right or wrong way to grieve (although some ways are more self-destructive than others). There's no rationale - no predictability when it comes to grieving for one you've loved.

I do think, however, each character shows different levels of maturity throughout the series...excluding the very early episodes when Gabrielle acts more like an eager-to-please, naive child, rather than a woman. In my eyes though, that doesn't mean the relationship is doomed to fail. At times, Xena is portrayed as the more mature; other times, it's Gabrielle. Xena acts more with her head, and Gabrielle, with her heart. Is one better than the other? It depends on the situation, I think, and both characters either came out ahead, or ended up in trouble, based on each one's follow-your-head/follow-your-heart reactions.

I think in the end their different ways of thinking balances out - one tempers the other, and this can perhaps leads to a stronger relationship.

[robinton]

People handle the death of loved ones differently - even the same individual will most likely react differently to deaths of different people they love.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. People will generally respond to the death of a loved one in one of two very specific ways. They will either follow the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of death and grieving or they will not follow that. In the episode "Is there a Doctor in the House" (Season 1, episode 24), Xena did not follow this model. She went from Denial to Anger and stayed there. She refused to budge from anger. And if we are to take later episodes into account, it has been hinted at that if Gabrielle was to ever die, Xena would most likely go back to her killing days, embrace "Dark Xena".

I am not an expert on death and dying. I am only drawing on what I have learned in college and what I have observed from the world around me. I am very open to discussion and open to have my viewpoints changed. I hope I am not coming off as an arrogant prick.

Thank you

[stepper]

No offense robinton - I don’t agree with the supposition that Kubler-Ross is an absolute, and therefore the position of “They will either follow the Kubler-Ross model of the five stages of death and grieving or they will not follow that.” is, for me, overly restrictive. Even Kübler-Ross expressed that the observable stages as she put forth were neither complete nor chronological. Her hypothesis includes that not all who experience a life-altering event will experience the five potential responses, nor will everyone who does experience them do so in a specified order. I found that her hypothesis supports the concluson that reactions to death are unique because the people who experience the event are an amalgam of their reactions to previous events.

With all that said, I never saw X&G as lovers. To me, the idea that two women can’t have a sustainable strong relationship ignores history proving otherwise. One example would be the depression where people were forced into close quarters and faced stressful situations. Another instance would be military personnel. Both present people with divergent histories who establish substantive lifelong bonds.

So, I agree with Phalon’s comment “even the same individual will most likely react differently to deaths of different people they love.” And, I have personally witnessed this. I agree with you that X:WP provides only “blurbs” with which to judge their relationship, but attempting to fill in the gaps is pure speculation. To me, the question is: “Is the relationship healthy for both individuals?” Based on the blurbs, I believe the answer to be yes. Of course, we’re talking about a TV show that butchered history and presented it from the view of fictional characters who were at the mercy of a group of writers. So, if we’re going to fill in the gaps, “I’ll do it myyyyyy waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!”

[robinton]

Why do people think that I personally believe that Gabrielle and Xena were, in fact lovers? I mean, I do believe it, but most people seem to automatically assume I think that.

You are right, the model is not the end all of the grieving process. But, from my experience of the death and the grieving process, I have witnessed that the Kübler-Ross model is a VERY good indicator on if a person is having an emotionally healthy reaction to the death of a loved one.

A little about me: I have worked in the field of death for about 10+ years. I was a CNA for about 7 years in various nursing homes. I worked as an EMT-I for about 1 year, then I worked as an ER tech for about 2 1/2 years. During my time in all of those professions, I was constantly around death. I got a unique view of how people deal with the death of someone they love, be it love as a friend, mother, father, sister, lover, or parent.

From this experience, I can say that I always looked for the Kübler-Ross model of grieving to judge if a person needed external help. If they did not follow it, I typically would try to find them outside help, or at the very least suggest that they seek out help themselves.

Watching Xena get stuck on the second stage, and then making what appeared to be a conscious choice to NOT move from that stage tells me that there are issues here that need to be addressed. Surprising, coming from someone who use to deal out death on a daily basis herself.

[stepper]

Why do people think that I personally believe that Gabrielle and Xena were, in fact lovers?

We're on the Xena forum - and for the X:WP show this was a contentious issue. I simply reacted to the posts between yourself and Phalon.
And yes, Kubler-Ross is widely accepted as a real world model. I'm just saying it functions much like the Cardinals when talking about the Pope - he's infallible unless he makes a mistake in which case he was not acting as the Pope during that specific situation.
I'm not convinced Kubler-Ross is applicable to X:WP.