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Post by Phalon on Dec 5, 2019 8:33:58 GMT -6
Thanks, Stepper!!! Will explain later (they are here now), but I read your comment last night, did some research, which caused us to rethink what we're doing.
Gotta run.
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Post by Phalon on Dec 6, 2019 22:27:26 GMT -6
Ok, here's the furnace scoop - the long version because I learned a lot (almost the hard way!), and it might help someone else that finds themselves in the same position we were: 30 degree temperatures, with a forecast next week with lows in the teens and highs in the twenties and no heat. Furnaces don't break down in the middle of summer. Our furnace was still working though, just making a strange noise, so Hubs had time to do some legwork before he called anyone. He dug out the paperwork on our old furnace; we had it installed in September of 2002 (I remember we decided back then to get a new furnace before winter because the one that was here when we bought the house was ancient) - it is a 90% efficiency gas furnace (at the time, considered high-efficiency; by today's standards it is a mid-efficiency). Total price, including the furnace, installation, old furnace disposal, taxes, labor, and building permit (needed in our area) was $2,386. It had a 10 year warranty. The company that installed the old furnace went out of business; the man who owned it retired years ago - he was highly regarded as THE man to go to for any heating or cooling work so it was big news in town when his business closed. The company Hubs ended up having come over has an A-plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, has a 5-star review rating on Yelp, and has been in business serving SW Michigan and Northern Indiana for 71 years. Seemed like a good choice. Here is what I found out during my drill after you questioned the price we were quoted (which btw, was an estimate - I misunderstood Hubs). 1.) The average life-span on a furnace is 15-25 years; ours was now 17 years old. 2.) The national average for replacing a furnace to include installation costs $4,316 with a typical range between $2,541 and $6,120 including materials, equipment and labor. Electric furnaces are the cheapest to replace, and oil is the most expensive. The national average for a typical gas furnace (we have gas) is $3000 - $6000; a high-efficiency gas furnace which is what is recommended in colder climates is $7,500 to $10,000, and up to $13,000 on the highest end, for difficult installations. A typical gas furnace costs $2,000 to $4,000 to install. For high-efficiency models, add 50% to 100% to the price. So far, so good - the $10,000 price (which again, I didn't know was just an estimate when I checked this), may have on the high end, but it included installation, taxes, removal of the old, and the needed permits. I checked three sites, and they all were within a couple hundred dollars of these prices. In case anyone needs this kind of info, here is the most comprehensive explanation for the different types of furnaces and costs: www.homeadvisor.com/cost/heating-and-cooling/install-a-furnace/ 3.) Next I looked up furnace scams. One of the biggest scams out there regarding furnaces is that servicemen will tell you your furnace's heating coils are cracked, and are leaking carbon monoxide. It's a scare tactic designed to pressure you into buying a new furnace. I kinda flipped out when I read that after your post, Stepper. Hubs was already in bed though, and I'd have to wait until morning to find out we weren't being scammed, after talking with him. There are two sets of coils in most furnaces; one on top, under the cover, and one further down, inside the furnace's guts. A scope is needed to see the inner set of coils, (Hubs watched the guy do this, and he showed Hubs the cracks, which were very obvious, on the scope's screen). We could have had the coils replaced for $2000, but since the furnace is nearing the end of its life-span, we opted to go for a new furnace. Not to mention, the parts would have to be ordered, and we'd be without heat longer. 4.) And this is when I really started flipping out. The $10,000 estimate, in reality, ended up being more than $15,000!!!! Yes, I put the comma in the right place. And this was totally our fault - we didn't ask enough questions, and misunderstood what we were being told, and what we were getting into. I get very frugal in winter when I'm not working - I like to have as much liquid assets on hand as possible for emergencies, and since winter just started, spring, when I go back to work, is a long way off. Dropping ten grand right off the bat puts a pretty big dent in our emergency fund for the rest of winter. I asked if they offered a payment plan, figuring we could make payments until I went back to work, then pay off the rest when I had a regular paycheck again. They had a few different options, but the one that sounded the best included a service agreement. This is important for anyone thinking of getting a new furnace - I read drilling, that 50-70 percent of people end up with this type of service contract, and though it's the way to go for some people, it is definitely not for everyone. Turns out, it wasn't for us, although we signed the contract. The service agreement is a bumper-to-bumper warranty - it covers everything to include even the most basic things like furnace filters, to the most expensive, like complete replacement during the lease period - 24/7/365 on-call service. Guaranteed. There are no up-front costs - just a monthly bill, and in our case, it was $135.50 monthly, and we wouldn't get our first bill until spring.... ...which is when I planned to pay it off anyway. I even asked if there was a penalty for paying it off early; the rep told me there was a depreciation cost, which I thought I understood, but actually didn't. Neither Hubs or I actually understood the service agreement, it turns out. It is is a lease - you do not own the furnace, you lease it. Water-heaters, air-conditioners, and appliances are all being leased now, instead of purchased. We understood that part, but thought it was kind of like leasing a car - you have the option of an early buy-out; we've never leased a car either, so I don't know why either of us thought it was comparable to paying off a loan. Not so when leasing a furnace - the lease, in our case, was for 10 years; if we wanted out, we'd have to pay the full amount of the service agreement - at $135.50 for ten years, (with no payments until spring), it comes out to over $15,000. For a furnace! And after 10 years, you still do not own the furnace - they come in and rip it out, put in a new one, and you start all over again!!!! I had to read the very, very fine print on the back of the service agreement with a magnifying glass to find this out. Although the heating company that we went with offers the service contract, it is actually contracted though another company that is nationwide - this agreement is being sold in every state in the country. The heating company itself offers a $1 buyout at the end of the service contract, but since it's theservice company's contract not theirs, nowhere on the contract does it say that in writing. Even the rep did not know that, since I swear the print is so small, even a magnifying glass barely makes it big enough to read. Now, all that being said, leasing is a good option for some people - for those that don't have a lot of money up front, and it's very popular for elderly homeowners on fixed incomes - they never need to worry about a repair bill again. Personally, I don't want to pay $15,000-plus for a furnace that's not even, or never will be ours. I called the guy at 8am; the installers were supposed to be there at 9am. I explained my concerns to include the scam with the heating coils, and he said he'd shift around his schedule, and be on his way - he was in South Bend, Indiana, about an hour away when I called. The installers were there right at 9; Hubs was home and we told them what was going on. They waited. Everyone was very accommodating, friendly, polite, and very thorough to include showing me the cracks in the heating coils, both by scope, and when they removed them. We cancelled the service agreement, and bought the furnace - a high-efficiency (98.6). Total bill - $8,700 to include everything, including a new thermostat compatible with the new furnace and old central air, and humidifier (which had gone out this summer). And we own it.
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Post by stepper on Dec 7, 2019 11:03:43 GMT -6
Me too! "Lease" a heater? If it's happening up there then it's probably happening down here too, but I've never heard of that before. Next thing you know builders will be sneaking that deal into new homes, with exceptionally small print of course, that you're renting all the appliances for a limited time and then you have to decide who's going to replace them - or you can purchase them at a slightly reduced cost. You watch - they'll do that to stoves and refrigerators too.
I'm glad you got things worked out to your satisfaction and saved some $$ to boot. Even with maintenance, over $16,000 for only 10 years just doesn't make sense. But as you pointed out, things are costing much more now than back when you got the last one. A guy in my office had to replace his within the past couple years. He got an efficiency gas model and it cost him between $5,000 and $6000, included new duct work (which matters here - TX summers are murder on duct work in the attic) - and has a 5 year maintenance with it. That's why I thought your original price seemed high. And you've got heat for that Canadian cold front that's heading your way.
Thanks for all the info in your post - I'll have to be careful and ask more questions when my turn comes to replace the heater.
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Post by Phalon on Dec 11, 2019 6:50:18 GMT -6
I hadn't heard of it either, which probably has a lot to do with why we didn't understand how it worked! During my two-minute drill, I read that it greatly reduces the resale value of a home - who's going to want to purchase a home that doesn't have a furnace included in the purchase price?
I told the rep the same thing when we backed out of the contract. He did offer one case that it made sense - an adult son who lives across country signed a furnace lease for his elderly parents; he pays the monthly bill for the peace of mind that his parents will never have to worry about their furnace again.
It's turned rather cold here. It's 21 degrees this morning and the wind is quite strong. The maples are making that cracking and popping noise as the sap freezes - I hate that sound; it's eerie especially in the dark.
Another eerie sound I heard last night around midnight was the cranes flying overhead. I mentioned it here last year - big, pure white birds flying in formation against the black sky, making what can only be described as an ungodly sound. As it was last year, I heard them coming long before I saw them. The sight wasn't as spectacular as last year because the sky was cloudy and gray, so the birds weren't as stark white looking, but never-the-less, it was certainly a very cool thing to see. And hear!
Supposed to be walking with the ladies this morning. I wonder if I'll get my 8am text that's it's a go? If so, I probably won't be able to walk very fast all bundled up like the kid in "A Christmas Story".
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Post by Phalon on Dec 12, 2019 7:02:59 GMT -6
Walked indoors yesterday. The ladies signed me into the senior center as a non-senior guest - never knew they were seniors; they haul-@ss walking! Same this morning - it's 18 degrees here now.
Last night would have been the perfect night for the cranes to fly over-head. The sky was clear, and that big, beautiful full moon (nearly full? I think tonight is the full moon), was so bright and gorgeous. Spectacular night sky even without the cranes.
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Post by Phalon on Dec 19, 2019 7:37:40 GMT -6
It's been brain-freezing cold here the past few days! Tuesday, I walked downtown to meet a friend for coffee, and then did some Christmas shopping afterward - stupidly not wearing a hat or scarf to cover my ears, or more than one pair of socks on my feet, and was cold for the rest of the day. Yesterday, the temperature was the same - about 20 degrees, but much windier. I had planned on walking to the post office, remembering this time to cover my head, and put an extra layer on my feet. Walked outside, felt the biting wind, and said 'f'-this, I'm driving! And it's only like a 5-10 minute walk!
Sixteen degrees this morning, but this is supposedly the last day of cold. Forecast says it's going to be in the high 30s, and into the 40s at least throughout the weekend.
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Post by Mini Mia on Dec 19, 2019 14:01:27 GMT -6
I’ve kind of been enjoying the cold a bit better. I can step out on the porch when it’s in the 50s and not feel like it’s in the teens, or below zero. The cold can still bother me at times, so I think it has to do with whether or not my internal furnace is running or not. The temps here have been going up and down between the 50s and teens, sometimes in the same day. We’ve had several days in the 20s & 30s, and then back up into the 40s and 50s. I’ve even managed to keep walking to the mailbox and back, something I’ve don’t recall doing since living in this house. (Except when the snow was too deep.)
My sis took me and my car for an oil change. She insisted I go and pay, what’s up with that? And they told me I need to start the car every day because the battery needed it during the cold weather. The battery is perfectly fine, I just don’t drive it enough during the cold weather for it to keep its perfect charge. So, guess I’ll start driving to the mailbox until Spring. It’s just hard to break a habit. It felt weird when I started walking to the mailbox, and not driving ... and now it feels weird to drive to the mailbox, and not walking. I doubled up on the Winter clothes, and put on a hunter vest over my coat. Someone gave it to me, and it keeps me really warm. I wore it the 15 days without lights after the ice storm of ‘09 hit. —— And a few years later I remembered that I have a snowsuit! Dang it! Oh, well, I managed to keep warm without it. Ha!
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Post by moonglum on Dec 20, 2019 0:35:09 GMT -6
6.30am and the temp is 10C and it's raining. We had a couple of rain-free days at the beginning of the week but for the last month it's been wet. We've had a couple of days when it has been windy but nothing to brag about and a few days when the temp has been just above zero.
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Post by Phalon on Dec 22, 2019 9:30:30 GMT -6
Yay for you! I know you get the winter blues, and though I don't suffer from winter depression, I've always felt that getting outside, even if it's cold, can help alleviate some of that, especially if you're doing something physical, like walking to the mailbox. I just know that I always feel more energized after being outside.
I might check with your BIL on this, or maybe one of the guys here has some insight, but starting your car in cold weather every day seems to be a bit overly precautious.
Our winters are colder than yours, and the rule of thumb we've always used is to start the vehicles every day if the temperatures are below zero (not below freezing). You still need to start it on occasion when it's cold, but not every day.
We don't drive our truck in the winter at all, but every couple of weeks, Hubs will start it, let it run for 10 minutes, run through the gears, turn on the windshield wipers, etc, etc, just to keep things running and lubricated (note: do not do this is an unventilated garage). Shoot, because I like to walk my errands when I can, even my car will sit for days without using it, or even starting it - sometimes the only place I'll drive in a week will be to the grocery store.
A car's parts need to be kept moving, of course, and the battery needs to charge - and the only way to do that is to drive the car. Just saying that if walking to the mailbox is something you've come to enjoy, maybe alternate days between walking and driving.
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Post by Mini Mia on Dec 22, 2019 20:29:24 GMT -6
She may have meant to do it everyday at first, since the battery was weak. She kind of stumbled over her words, so maybe she didn't say what she meant to say. We stopped at Sonic before going home, and my sister left the motor running while we ate. It was cold, so the warm air was nice. Autumn seemed to think it was Winter, and Winter seems to think it's Autumn.
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Post by Phalon on Sept 24, 2020 5:06:59 GMT -6
The coldish nights and warm, sunny days last week must have really had an effect on the leaves - gorgeous fall color is really starting to show on my drive to work, mostly on the sugar maples. It's a lot more vibrant than last year, when I remember the color, although beautiful, being more subdued.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 25, 2020 0:25:41 GMT -6
The days have been cool. It has been cloudy, so it might have been warmer with the sun out. But, Autumn is most definitely here to stay.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 26, 2020 12:20:46 GMT -6
Starting Monday, the nights will be in the 40s, and the days will be in the 60s, except it will get up in the low 70s on Wednesday. That’s the prediction anyways. So, looks like the warm weather will be leaving soon.
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Post by Phalon on Sept 27, 2020 8:07:40 GMT -6
Autumn colors keep popping! We had a stretch of very summery days starting mid-week - mornings I went to work in a t-shirt, sweatshirt and shorts, shedding the sweatshirt by mid-day. I think yesterday might have been the end of the 70s though; it's supposed to be cooler this week, with a cold-front moving in by next weekend.
I am so hoping for a nice extended fall. It's been a tough work season at the nursery, busier than it's ever been, and in the middle of a pandemic, short staffed, and shoot, fall always seems too short - is it too much to ask to finish out the work season with a gorgeous autumn?
I hoping not, because I've put in my request!
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 27, 2020 13:43:09 GMT -6
Today is 79F, but feels like 81F. The rest of the days ahead are still predicted as I stated earlier, except Friday’s high is in the upper 50s. I wouldn’t mind the temps staying that way for several weeks before dropping again. Sadly, Spring and Autumn tend to jump too quickly from Winter to Summer and Summer to Winter. — And yesterday the corn in the field to my left got combined. Today the field to my right is being combined. I can see the road now. It got dark before they cleared the left field, so I couldn’t see the road yesterday when they finished.
http://instagram.com/p/CFqAt9JAqeY
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Post by Phalon on Sept 29, 2020 5:22:48 GMT -6
I love that line of trees!
Justa quick stop in this morning - I'm running late. Cool and rainy all day yesterday, with temperatures in the 50s; not heavy rain, but just enough of it and just cool enough to keep me from getting work done in my gardens...which I've been attempting to do for weeks, but other things keep coming up.
Rain and 50s predicted again for today, and since I'm working, I won't have the luxury of staying inside.
Better get moving. Later, Taters.
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Post by Mini Mia on Sept 30, 2020 1:51:29 GMT -6
Yeah. They’re nice. The neighbors planted them when they built their house. Guess I’m not the only one who likes to feel secluded.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 2, 2020 11:11:07 GMT -6
According to my weather app, most of next week is 70s/50s, which is normal for October. October’s temps go up and down. The closer we get to November, the lower the highs will be.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 4, 2020 12:48:29 GMT -6
Tonight’s low is supposed to be in the 30s. The highs all week are to be in the 70s & 80s. I’ve had a little bit of sinus problems, but nothing major. I didn’t have sinus problems before I started taking hormones at 16, so now that I’m not taking hormones anymore I’m hoping that my sinus problems will go away. That would be nice.
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Post by Phalon on Oct 5, 2020 5:54:22 GMT -6
Same here with the sinuses - it's typical for me when the temperatures change drastically. Though we haven't had a frost yet, the highs last week were in the 40s and 50s. Lotsa rain, wind, clouds, and overall dampness and drippiness; the cold and dampness caused that dreaded sinus pressure. The sun came out on occasion though. Driving home from work one day, it was raining hard, the clouds over the lake were black, but the sun was shining, and to the east was the most beautiful rainbow.
I got a new toy - Hubs bought an inexpensive night-vision motion-censored camera. Don't know if you remember, but I've always wondered what goes on in the ravine at night - what animals creep around down there or follow the creek through our yard. He set it up strapped to one of the trunks of the birch at the top of the hill overlooking the ravine.
I when a plugged the camera's USB into my computer, I was excited to see there were approximately 100 pictures captured in just one night! And then I looked through them.
The first one was probably taken shortly after Hubs set it up - it was still daylight out, and the picture was of a squirrel in the yard. The next photo was at night, and in the very corner of the photo was the wing of the bat flying into the frame. No, wait. It was Quetta's ear - when I let her out that night, she must have wandered past the camera; there were four of five photos of her. The rest of the photos showed nothing - I looked at them, one by one, and couldn't figure out what set off the motion detector on the camera; I studied them again, and still there was nothing. I looked at them once more, this time flipping quickly through the photos. Ahhhh-ha!
It must have gotten windy during the night. LMAO. Flipping the photos quickly, it was like a motion picture - which was of a birch branch swaying up and down right in front of the camera lens.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 5, 2020 11:44:07 GMT -6
After last night’s 30s, I woke up with a stuffy nose. I took a 24-hour allergy pill. I should probably take one a day until May. Tonight’s low is supposed to be in the 40s, and the rest of the week back up to the 50s. Matched with the highs of the 70s/80s, an allergy pill a day might be a smart move.
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Post by Phalon on Oct 11, 2020 5:40:02 GMT -6
This past week has been Autumn to perfection - sunny, mild days in the 60s are spoiling me. The colors are spectacular, and I find myself driving much slower on my way to work, just to take it all in - which only means I'm not going over the speed limit as much as I normally do. If the forecast is right, we've got about another half a week of gorgeous weather before it drops to highs in the 50s for the remainder of October.
A funny sight at the nursery - a rabbit chasing a cat around and around the gardens. They weren't going tearing through the area as if it was an all-out chase; the cat was more trotting than running, with the rabbit hopping after it, almost as if they were playing. Strange.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 11, 2020 22:16:00 GMT -6
Maybe they were playing. I've seen videos where a deer and a rabbit were playing. But, then again, cats do like to play with their food.
I've noticed that my temps are usually 10 degrees higher than yours. We're in the 70s now during the day, but that will be dropping soon to the 60s during the day.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 15, 2020 13:04:00 GMT -6
We’re getting closer to Halloween, so the highs aren’t going to be so high anymore. Well, that’s the norm. The day’s high are in the 60s for a few days, and then up in the low 70s, then back down in the 60s. The night’s lows are dipping down into the 30s from time to time, but aren’t staying there yet. Tonight there is a frost warning. I hope it doesn’t do like last year, and dip into the freezing temps. The leaves were just starting to turn, and then they were done in by the too cold temps. It’s getting so pretty here now, and I’d hate to miss out two years in a row.
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Post by Phalon on Oct 19, 2020 7:07:31 GMT -6
Woke up this morning to flashing lights and a series of blips and bleeps - the leaf-sucker truck was making its way down the street...at 5:30 in the morning! No way to sleep through that, and shoot it's my day off when I can actually sleep in.
Last week was all over the place as far as temperatures go; we started off sunny and mild in the 60s and 70s, then dropped to highs in the 40s with wind, rain and clouds. Some gorgeous sunsets though, with black clouds above, a neon orange sky over the lake, and the sinking sun reflecting off the already fall colored trees turning them glowing orange and flaming red. It was spectacular.
Another evening, BP and I went walking in the cemetery. Say what you will about me spending an inordinate amount of time there, which is especially so this year with the pandemic; it is one of the few places in town that is free from crowds (of the living, of course). It's also one of the most beautiful places in town, with it's rolling hills, manicured lawns, mature trees, and winding roads. This time of year it's especially beautiful, and we got a special treat as a couple of deer bounded right past us, their huge white tails strikingly stark against the fall colors and waning daylight.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 19, 2020 13:56:25 GMT -6
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Post by Phalon on Oct 22, 2020 5:07:02 GMT -6
Thunder and lightning and rain, oh my!
Gotta sign off now because of the lighting...and of course, because I'm running late.
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Post by Phalon on Oct 24, 2020 5:12:23 GMT -6
Yesterday at this time it was 70 degrees. This morning it's 35 degrees.
Since this is really that only "social media" I post on, and I've got cemetery adventures a'plenty for the 31 Days of Halloween (if I ever get around to writing them), let me know if you're one of the people who get offended.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 24, 2020 11:20:17 GMT -6
Nope. It won’t offend me. Post away. Just giving you a heads up to people being attacked on social media for their graveyard comments. I figured you’d have something snarky to say about it.
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Post by Mini Mia on Oct 24, 2020 11:24:31 GMT -6
The last few days the temps have been in the 80s and high 70s. Today the high is 49F, at the moment. The highs are expected to be in the 50s/60s this week. Both fairly equal. The lows are expected to be in the 30s/40s. The 40s dominating the majority of the time.
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