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Post by Mini Mia on Jan 18, 2023 0:53:47 GMT -6
JUNE 6: Minutes of the Women Talking
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Post by Mini Mia on Jan 29, 2023 5:06:45 GMT -6
I have finished the first read of chapter two. Debating on rereading it.
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Post by Phalon on Jan 29, 2023 19:58:05 GMT -6
I finished the chapter last night also, and though I probably won't reread the whole thing, I'll have to reread parts, just to make sense of the notes I jotted down while reading, which right now are just a jumble of phrases.
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Post by Mini Mia on Feb 2, 2023 22:33:53 GMT -6
The women seem easily distracted, and in no rush to start heading out before the menfolk get back. I’m starting to think the vote will be in favor of staying. Not sure yet if they will fight or not if they do stay.
Still giving myself time for more thoughts. But figured I’d try to at least get the discussion started. Perhaps more will come in small spurts. (Better than none. *cough* Emma *cough*)
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Post by Mini Mia on Feb 3, 2023 19:25:25 GMT -6
The young boys were put in charge of the women, and therefore they learned their superiority over them. Just as they were in charge of the animals that they used the 'sleeping' poison on. They didn't see the women as people, but as animals. They also knew that their religion would force the women to forgive them, and that no action would be taken against them. And that most likely would have happened had they been more aware of which women they attacked. They didn't bother to observe the women to see who had more power of action within them. They lumped all of the women into meek, nonthreatening animals with no will or self-preservation. Nor did they take into account how mother animals will fight to the death to protect their young. That mistake is the reason the men were finally arrested.
Personally, I would have liked snippets of flashbacks from the women's point of view. (Of their mistreatment by the men who didn't believe them, and told them that they were being punished for their sins. And maybe the aftermath of discovering the truth of what had been happening to them.) To feel their pain, and indecisions. The reader is on the outside, and even more of an outsider than August. Which I guess is the reason. I get frustrated with some of the women, not aware of the emotions running through them. The only connection I feel to them at the moment is from the movie clips/trailers. Plus, also being a woman.
Do the men think that because the women were unconscious during the rapes that it shouldn't be traumatic to them? (I think a lot of men think this way.) The women have no memory of the act, therefore they have no reason to make such a fuss of it, and that it should be easy to forgive their abusers?
When I was in my early 20s, I was babysitting in the late afternoon/early evenings. The woman's boyfriend got there a wee bit before she did. I had the TV on, but hadn't started anything because I knew I'd be leaving soon. I don't recall if he took control of the remote, or if I had left the TV on the channel I had bee watching. Anyways, a movie came on, and at the beginning of the movie, a woman was running from a man and fighting him off. The boyfriend told the woman on the TV to, "just relax and enjoy it." I was glad when the woman came home and I could leave. (The mother was a few years older than me. 4 or 5 years or so.)
So, do the men switch the situation in their heads and think, "Hey, I'd love for a woman to chase me down and rape me, so what's her problem?" Would men still be okay with being raped by another man? I don't get how some men don't see the trauma of a woman being forced into doing something against her will. Even if that person is a loved one. And, most men probably don't feel threatened at the idea of a woman raping them, because they are still in control. Or they see themselves as still being in control. But, would they enjoy being raped by a woman if it turned out they had lost control of the situation? And if she did things to them that they didn't want done to them?
. . . another starting point. More thoughts may pop up later on.
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Post by Mini Mia on Feb 4, 2023 15:14:45 GMT -6
I think what is frustrating me about these women is that they’re not used to having a voice, and don’t know how to go about making decisions for themselves. I’m not being patient with them, as my Dad was never patient with me. I’m expecting them to know what they’re doing, or learning it quickly, like I was expected to do. They’re moving far too slow for me, and easily distracted. And August keeps adding his thoughts to the meeting, which may give insight, and may become more clear in future chapters, but is only slowing down the action.
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Post by Mini Mia on Feb 6, 2023 19:39:38 GMT -6
I am rereading the chapter. I have learned that a second read/watch keeps my thoughts from distracting me.
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Post by Phalon on Feb 11, 2023 8:04:23 GMT -6
I'm sorry I've been so remiss in this discussion; I've been trying to get a million things done, from taxes to the on-line course to getting the basement cleaned out, before being called back to work, and I know it'll be sooner than later. Just some brief notes here now, because I've got one errand that I have to get done this morning.
Commenting on parts of what you've mentioned until I have more time:
First off...
WTF??! How is that even remotely ok to say to a young woman? Or any woman, for that matter, even if it is your wife, girlfriend, or close female friend. Even if you're "only joking". I remember years and years ago, a "joke" was posted in these forums, that was basically was a euphemism for rape. It's never funny, and never ok.
Though I haven't watched any trailers or movie snippets, I did read some reviews (that didn't mention spoilers) of the book before starting to read it. The style the story is told - strictly from the outside through August's minutes - and that it all takes place in the barn with the women....well...talking, was a point of contention among readers who wanted more action. Personally, I don't mind it, and don't feel as if I'm on the outside. Just a listener privy to their meeting.
Ok, this made me laugh...only because of my experience in being part of any group discussion, whether it's a meeting with co-workers, the writing group I belonged to, any volunteer committee I've sat on, or even seminars that are open to discussion at the end. You get a group of people together, and the topic that's supposed to be discussed, always, always strays off topic. People get distracted, interject their own opinions and experiences which may only remotely be related to the discussion.
Ha! Kind of like how I just did.
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Post by Mini Mia on Feb 11, 2023 17:08:33 GMT -6
On a first read/watch, my brain has to get involved and predict where the story/scene is going. And then will wander off to other paths the story could have taken. (Which does give me great ideas that I will jot down.) My brain remains involved until the end. And on the second read/watch, my brain gets out of the way because it knows what’s coming, and I can read/watch in peace. There have been a lot of times when I don’t love something until I’ve read/watched it two times, at least. Which is why I decided that I should reread the chapter to see what I glean the second time around. Now that my nitpicking brain knows how the chapter played out.
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Post by Joxcenia on Feb 12, 2023 19:00:05 GMT -6
I can't believe that I've forgotten how threads have gone off topic on the Xena boards.
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Post by Joxcenia on Feb 12, 2023 19:14:18 GMT -6
Peters, as a leader, is such a hypocrite. Why do his rules go unchallenged? His leadership style is: Do as I say, not as I do. (My dad's favorite quote.) Peters kept the clock instead of selling or destroying it. He was more concerned for the well-being of the abusers than he was for the women and children who were diseased by their abusers. He continued to do nothing while women were killing themselves, yet it was the attack on the abusers that spurred him into action. Peters is an abuser, after the fact. As are a lot of the men who didn't oppose him, nor stood up for their womenfolk. Peters seems to have no compassion for the women and young girls in the community. He is followed blindly.
The women have so many major hurdles to face should they leave. They have no clue on how the real world works, nor can they communicate with it. They will have to let the boys they take with them to be their go between when dealing with the outside world ... until they learn the language themselves. It would be so much easier to just stay where they are and either fight for change, or continue on the way it is.
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