"Women Talking" Book Discussion # 5

[Mini Mia]

JUNE 7: August Epp, After the Meeting

Acknowledgements
A Note on the Author

[Joxcenia]

I will be reading this tomorrow . . . if nothing comes up.

[Joxcenia]

So the women have left. And August was asked to take the minutes to keep him from killing himself. Yet he is left behind.

And this is a work of fiction, and doesn’t reflect the actual facts.

And Peters is exposed yet again for his double standards. Was August a consensual experience, or a child of rape?

[Phalon]

I finished reading the book a few nights ago...

And this is a work of fiction, and doesn’t reflect the actual facts.

I hated, hated, hated the ending. Not the entire ending, but just the last page - just three small paragraphs:

I stand at the window and sniff the air for any sign of smoke, but there is none, or if there is, I can't detect it.

Are the women rushing headlong into a raging fire?

I look at the boys, asleep, unconscious to be exact, and plead silently with them to tell me the truth.

I have this nagging feeling that I'm forgetting some foreshadowing bit earlier in the book that the author intended to be a clue, that yes, there is actually a fire, and the women will be trapped, or forced to return to the colony.

And August was asked to take the minutes to keep him from killing himself.

The squirrel and the rabbit story: the beginning of the book and the end...or at least this is where I wished it would have ended, with August realizing that Ona made up the whole thing to keep him from killing himself:

There was no point to the minutes. I have to laugh.

Perfect ending.

[Joxcenia]

The Koop brothers most likely started the fire, and it hadn't yet reached the smoke stage. Also, they might have started it far enough away that the women wouldn't notice it until they had been on the road for a short while. Apparently only men are kicked out of the community. And only women in that family are kicked out along with their men. Women can't leave on their own, and aren't kicked out on their own.

--- ---

From what I've read about the real event, the women are still there. In this day and age, there should be organizations set up to help the women leave if they wish to. These organizations could hire/use outcast members of the community to help teach the women how to speak the language of their country, and aid them in beginning their new lives wherever they want to go.

However, I've seen documentaries, and programs that show some Amish communities do let their young adults go out into the world. They let them decide if they want to stay out in the world, or if they want to come back and join their community as adults. So, maybe only a select few communities are this strict.

Feb 18, 2023 6:20:22 GMT -6 Joxcenia said:

And Peters is exposed yet again for his double standards. Was August a consensual experience, or a child of rape?

All signs lead to it being rape.

[Phalon]

From what I've read about the real event, the women are still there. In this day and age, there should be organizations set up to help the women leave if they wish to. These organizations could hire/use outcast members of the community to help teach the women how to speak the language of their country, and aid them in beginning their new lives wherever they want to go.

I think (though I'm not sure) that the actual women this happened to weren't given the ultimatum to stay and forgive, or be forced out. I do know that the men in the real event were turned over to authorities outside the community, and convicted to 25 years in prison.

However, I've seen documentaries, and programs that show some Amish communities do let their young adults go out into the world. They let them decide if they want to stay out in the world, or if they want to come back and join their community as adults. So, maybe only a select few communities are this strict.

I was flipping channels last week, and landed on a Dateline rerun - I think the episode was from a few years ago. It was about Warren Jeffs, leader (Prophet) of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints - not to be confused with the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints; the former is some kind of offshoot. I was struck by the similarities of this closed community and the Mennonite community in the book. Both closed religious communities, and the abuse of women that occurred is very similar (rape is rape no matter the attempts to disguise it under some form of religious obedience). I almost wonder if Toews drew upon this event as well as what happened in Bolivia to write "Women Talking". Peters could very well be based on Jeffs - even down to their fathers being community leaders before them; both father and son the case of Jeffs and Peters acted more like dictators than religious leaders, and perverted their religion to their own gain.

[Joxcenia]

I think (though I'm not sure) that the actual women this happened to weren't given the ultimatum to stay and forgive, or be forced out. I do know that the men in the real event were turned over to authorities outside the community, and convicted to 25 years in prison.

I'm not sure if the women even considered leaving as an option. There's really not much I've found on this story.