Nazis tied to Texas: USA Nuclear attack

[buttcheeks]

Here is the latest entry into Whitley's journal. This guy makes much more sense to me these days:

A Nation In Peril 7/12/05

There is a significant likelihood that the United States is going to experience a nuclear attack. This attack will probably take the form of the destruction of more than one American city, and will be designed to cause maximum casualties.
This seems inevitable because the steps necessary to prevent it have not been taken, and perhaps cannot be taken. While some efforts have been made by Homeland Security to secure our borders and ports against the importation of illegal nuclear materials, the reality is that a determined enemy will eventually get such things through.

But who has both the motive and the means? Certainly, al Quaeda would appear to have the motive, as would any number of other terrorist groups, Islamic and otherwise. There is more to it than that, though.

While I cannot prove it with documentary evidence, I can speculate that there is a hidden group, not really organized in any overt way, that, taken together, possesses both the motive and the will to engage in this horrific act.

I am not so sure that it is as simple as an Islamic Terrorist group. That's part of it, but the waters run even deeper.

The reasons for this are many, chief among them the fact that there are elements within the United States government who are deeply committed to destroying this free society, and rendering it powerless to prevent their larger aims in the world, which are to fulfill a modified version the racial and social objectives that were formed in Germany during the twenties and thirties of the last century.

The power centers of this group are three: Saudi Arabia, Munich, and Texas. Elements of these three communities are connected by a secret bond of loyalty that was forged during and after World War II, in the German prisoner of war camps in South Texas, in the Islamic Center of Munich, and among Texas oil men and the Saudi kingdom.

Beginning in 1942, the British began to be unable to house all the German prisoners they were taking in North Africa, then, as the war wound down, in Europe. By late 1944, the western Allies were refusing the surrender of German soldiers, and simply disarming them and sending them home. The Russians were briefly interning them and then killing them like cattle.

Prior to this 650,000 German prisoners were sent to internment camps in the United States. A number of these camps were located in Texas, in Hearne, in San Antonio and other places, mostly in South Texas, because the soldiers had been captured in North Africa and the Geneva Convention required that they be interned in areas similar to those in which they had been captured.

Soldiers in these camps were governed by their own officers, which meant that a powerful Nazi presence existed in the camps. In fact, they were run by Nazis, with the full co-operation of the US government. Again, it was required under the Geneva Convention that officers of captured troops be allowed to remain responsible for the welfare of their prisoner-soldiers.

Also in South Texas was a substantial settlement of Germans who had come as a result of the urging of an early colonist of German extraction, Fredrick Diercks. At present, there are about 2.5 million Texas Germans, located mostly in the hill country north of San Antonio, San Antonio itself, and throughout south Texas.

I am, myself, a Texas German, and I do not mean to imply by anything that follows that I think that the majority of Texas Germans are in any way disloyal Americans, or even that people of German descent in Texas form the core of the present post-Nazi group I am discussing here.

However, Naziism was brought to Texas by Germans, and it has taken root there.

Prior to World War II, there was a significant Nazi movement in the United States. The FDNA, the American Nazi Party, was run from Germany until 1936, when it became the German-American Bund, an American-run replacement that was designed to be less unpopular with the American people.

In South Texas, there were about 2,000 registered Bund members when war broke out between Germany and the US. Most of them were in south Texas, specifically in San Antonio and the counties to the south and east of that city. They were interned in camps in Crystal City and Kenedy, Texas, along with German aliens who had been in the United States at the time war was declared.

This was done to prevent them from sending money to Germany via Mexico. Like the more public Union Bank, which had been created by Prescott Bush with the support of influential Germans, the purpose of this was to enable Germany to replenish its gold reserves, which had been severely depleted after World War I. After WWII began, Germany’s need for gold became more urgent, because of the demands of the war.

There was much communication between German nationals and US Bund members interned in Kenedy and Crystal City, and Nazi officers interned at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. This was accomplished by US Army intelligence officers who moved between the three groups trying to find out how US dollars were moving from South Texas to Mexico, where they were being used to buy gold to send to Germany.

Profoundly loyal relationships were developed between some Texans, Germans and others, and members of the Nazi party interned in the various camps. These relationships survived the war, and after it was over, the overseers of Project Paperclip, which was a program that brought German scientists of use to the United States into this country, determined that Air Force installations near San Antonio would be a good place to base such scientists, who would find a relatively more receptive community in which to live.

At the same time in Germany, an event was taking place that would form the basis for the connection between Saudi Arabia and the Nazis and, ultimately, oilmen among the Texas Germans, who have brought their loyalties forward, at this point, two generations.

During the war, large numbers of Red Army soldiers deserted to the Wehrmacht, and many of these soldiers ended up in West Germany after the war. As they learned more about Nazi ideology, they discovered in its occult roots a connection to Islam that drew them toward that religion, but not entirely because they believe in the words of the Prophet in the same sense that an ordinary Muslim does.

By 1958, ex-Nazis had founded a mosque in Munich, which, on the surface, was a place of Moslem worship, but which was also a center for Nazi recruitment and maintenance of the Nazi organization throughout the world. There was a need for funding, and this was found by following the traces of the old gold path back through Mexico to the Texas Germans. The movement took on its Moslem appearance and character when it became clear that existing Arab ad-hoc financial systems, which primarily involved cash transfers based on coded telegrams, would be an ideal means of funding substantial activities, which included, by that time, very extensive political operations throughout Latin America, as well as a slow process of infiltration of the American political system.

Information about how to access these Arab financial systems, and how to gain the confidence of the Saudis was provided by representatives of ARAMCO, the Arab-American Oil Company, Texas Germans who were sympathetic to the larger aims of the Munich group.

The infiltration of the American political system was accomplished by reconstructing the links that had existed before the war between the German-American Bund and the followers of Father Charles Coughlin, an influential Nazi sympathizer of the thirties.

Originally a supporter of the New Deal, by the late thirties Father Coughlin had abandoned his National Union of Social Justice and created the Christian Front, which is the foundation, in one way or another, of many modern extremist political organizations that characterize themselves as Christian.

Increasingly, in the late thirties and early forties, Father Coughlin became more pro-Nazi and anti-Semitic. An FBI raid on Coughlin’s headquarters in 1940 revealed evidence that the group planned the murder of many Jews and other political leaders, and Father Coughlin faded from the national scene.

After the war, many of Father Coughlin’s followers sought other means of expressing their anti-Communism and anti-Semitism, and their relationships with members of the German-American Bund.

There is no structured organizational link between the old Bund, Father Coughlin, and modern extremists on the left and the right in the United States who, mostly without realizing it, are members of groups that support the larger objectives of Naziism, which is a vitally alive and active, if concealed, political presence in the modern world.

However, when you see members of the left claiming that they are “anti-Zionist,” not anti-Semitic, and sometimes defending blood-soaked forgeries such as the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” a fabrication created in the late nineteenth century by elements of the Okrana, the Czarist secret service, to justify economic expropriation of Jewish assets by cash-strapped Imperial Russia, you are seeing unconscious Nazis doing the work of the larger organization, which remains to eliminate democracy as a form of government, and to eradicate the Jewish race.

Similarly, when you see radical Christian groups claiming that the Nazi stronghold Colonia Dignidad in Chile had innocuous aims, and calling for the replacement of the American republic with a “Bible republic,” you are seeing groups carrying out, for the most part unconsciously, the objectives of world Naziism.

Modern Nazis do not express their sympathies openly. The American Nazi Party, for example, has no more to do with them than do publicly visible racist organizations in Germany and Russia. Rather, they are Nazi by their sympathies and their beliefs, not in name or by virtue of membership in political organizations.

There is one world shrine, however, that many of them visit from time to time. This is a grove of trees in Berchtesgaden, near the site of Hitler’s mountain chalet, which was destroyed after the war and is now occupied by a hotel. The postwar West German state forbade the placement of votives or memorials on the site of the chalet itself, but it still drew silent visitors from around the world. The grove is its replacement.

Whether worshipers at the grove or not, these people, with their shared beliefs and loyalties, and their successful avoidance of discovery by the press, have come very close to Hitler’s objective, which is world domination by a central authoritarian government that would function as an umbrella over all other governments. However, there is a difference now. In order for such a profoundly inhuman, not to say inhumane, organization to control the life of man, it would need to be a deep secret. In fact, it would need almost to be tacit, an organization of shared beliefs and agreements, rather than anything on paper.

This is what it is, in fact. Its members, at this point, are bound more by family ties and a belief that they have a superior ability to govern, than by any sentimental connection to Adolf Hitler. For the most part, they would never dream of visiting Berchtesgaden, nor do they feel any connection with Nazism. They are Nazis, however, in that their personal ideology is authoritarian and racist in the same ways, and for the same reason, that Nazism is authoritarian and racist, and arises from the same deep currents of fear, personal arrogance and tribalism that gave rise to the Nazi movement.

The link with Saudi Arabia has three roots: money, Islam and anti-Semitism. The mosque in Munich appears now to be a thriving center of radical Islam and anti-Semitism, carefully concealed to avoid violating German law. Money travels freely around the world, borne on the tide of an ancient system of finance that is cash based and, at this point, completely untraceable. It gets its cash from the Saudis and from counterfeiting operations located throughout the world, most notably in Syria, Iran and Myanmar. Indeed, counterfeit dollars are at this point so perfect that they cannot be distinguished from real currency at all. Nobody knows how much American cash is fake, but billions of dollars a year are poured into the world economy in the form of artificial American cash.

Returning to the roots of Nazi influence in modern America, and why this is leading to a nuclear attack on the United States, it is necessary to explore the current situation, so that we can understand why the Nazis, as close as they are to goals they have been pursuing for two generations, would suddenly feel so threatened.

It is first necessary to understand that they began the process of gaining control of the United States back in the fifties, when they began to act, behind the cover of an extensive and cancerous system of “classification,” through which all important information was routinely withheld from the public, to consolidate their power within the military, the cutting edge of space science, and the human behavioral arm of the intelligence community.

Dwight Eisenhower was well aware of this problem, and in his last speech as president of the United States warned against the growth of the very “military-industrial complex” that has come to dominate American society, and has preserved itself past the cold war by manufacturing an artificial atmosphere of crisis, without regard for the welfare of the nation or the lives of its citizens, or those of any other nation.

After John F. Kennedy was elected to office, Eisenhower warned him that these people had taken over a small piece of American soil called No-Name Key, where the International Penetration Force was being trained. Kennedy accordingly put a stop to activities on No-Name Key and aborted the planned invasion of Cuba.

This outraged a group of right-wing Texas oilmen, among them H. L. Hunt and others, who began to seek the assassination of Kennedy. Whether they succeeded or not remains a source of controversy, but certainly they wanted Kennedy dead.

During the fifties, also, various CIA-sponsored mind control experiments, among them Operation Bluebird, MK-ULTRA and others, sought to create, and did create, assassins, of whom Robert Kennedy’s murderer, Sirhan Sirhan, was almost certainly one.

The Kennedys were killed not only because of Cuba, but because they did not intend to extend American operations in Vietnam, and, above all, were aware of the fact that Nazis and Nazi sympathizers were getting involved in the American political process, most particularly in Texas.

It was also at this time that George H.W. Bush, with his knowledge of the old gold path gained from his father and his father’s Union Bank records, moved from Connecticut to Houston. He brought with him a hidden connection both to German Nazis and to Saudi anti-Semites, and effectively consolidated the movement in Texas, removing the last traces of it from the hostile northeastern United States, and placing it firmly among the more congenial Texas German community.

Whether he did this consciously or not I do not know. But I do know that he moved to Texas because there were like minded people there, who were not disturbed by his father's wartime miscalculation and, indeed, may even have found it laudable.

There are deep sympathies among some Texas, especially connected to the oil industry, that coincide with the interests of the Munich mosque, the Saudis, and American authoritarians who seek to establish a world government that controls local puppet states across the planet, without regard to how they function locally, as long as they act toward the great corporations that are the real seat of elite power, as they are bidden to act.

Over time, the objective of this elite is to establish itself as a kind of international royalty that will rule a planet of what will essentially be pacified slaves. In general, human beings will no longer be able to move between countries freely, will no longer have access to a free exchange of ideas, and will be caught in an economic trap from which, without any meaningful organizations among the general population to balance the power of this authority, there will be no escape.

As was true when the Roman republic collapsed, the appearance of free government will be maintained. The Roman senate continued to sit, and apparently to govern a republic, for hundreds of years after all power had, in fact, passed to the emperors. City officials continued to be elected as before, throughout the empire. But, in fact, it was not a free society, and eventually succumbed, as this new one will, too, to the cumbersome inefficiencies of authoritarianism.

Sadly, we will face, on a larger scale, the same fate that befell the Romans, who celebrated in the streets when the brutal imperial tax collectors came no more. Within two generations, most of the western Roman empire had degenerated into starved and miserable communities isolated from each other by a lack of roads, by the decline of Latin into a polyglot of slangs, by the isolation of government to the point that the only real order any leader could impose, for example, in Gaul, extended only as far as a soldier could march in a day. Money was forgotten to the point that, when it began to be reintroduced a few hundred years later, it was regarded as a form of magic. Literature, the arts and science declined into a confusion of superstitions that led to the dictatorship of the church, a malign barbarism that lasted a thousand years.

It is impossible to estimate just how much mankind lost of hope and freedom when the Roman republic collapsed, or how much more with the collapse of the empire, but certainly we are as we are today, mired in this strange and malignant state of wars, alarms, disasters, and concealed leaderships because we have never managed to truly democratize, to finally establish an economic and governmental system that flows from the individual and not the various institutional forms that have arisen, in endless variety, over the millennias-long struggle of this species to free itself from those who would impose the will of the few on the many.



continued next page......

[buttcheeks]

continued...

It may seem a long leap from there to the Kennedy assassinations, the shoot-down of TWA Flight 800, 911, the London bombings and the threat to Carl Rove that has emerged in recent months, but it is not.

It is difficult not to think that this silent, almost ad-hoc movement of authoritarians is not deeply invested in the United States military and in the government, and acting to further its objectives from positions of power, that are protected by the political leadership because it is no longer powerful enough to dislodge them, or does not care to do so, or cannot find them.

Despite the absurd explanation for the presence of a missile track in a video of the Flight 800 disaster offered by the CIA after the event, it still remains true that the plane was shot down. The one vessel known to be in the area at the moment the plane exploded that was probably involved—a small boat that headed out to sea at high speed immediately after the incident—was the only craft not investigated by the FBI. The CIA’s explanation of the missile track is childish propaganda, as silly as the explanation for why the 757 that struck the Pentagon on 911 mysteriously vaporized.

It is my belief that Flight 800 was shot down by elements operating within the United States government, and using its facilities and resources, in order to prevent documents that had been placed aboard the plane from reaching Kennedy associate Pierre Salinger in France. I fear that these documents would have proven connections between people like Roy Hargraves of No-Name Key fame, H. L. Hunt, and a number of other Texas millionaires who have been heavy political contributors over the years to both US political parties, both of which have accepted this tainted money and become its victims.

Judging from his statements at the time, Mr. Salinger was well aware of what was coming his way, which was why he so vociferously maintained that the plane had been shot down. He knew it, I suspect, certainly, but was led, through a lack of sophistication, into making a fool of himself over the matter.

What happened on 911 is that a consortium involving the Bin Laden family and their friends in Texas engaged in an operation that was, to an extent, co-opted by the errant Bin Laden brother into a much more extensive attack than the rest of the conspirators had expected. They did not count on suicide bombers, nor on the fact that the World Trade Center could be entirely destroyed. They sought a spectacular and terrifying event, not a catastrophe on the scale that actually unfolded. However, they did receive the benefit of the event, which was exactly the same benefit that Adolf Hitler received after the burning of the Reichstag in 1933: a transformation in popularity inspired by public fear.

They are in an even worse position now than they were then. George W. Bush is one of the least popular presidents in American history. Through greed and a lack of expertise, his administration has gotten itself into a quagmire in Iraq which the public will not tolerate much longer, but which cannot be ended “with honor” for the foreseeable future.

Now the whole administration is threatened with being unraveled over the Valerie Plame affair. If any serious attention is paid to Carl Rove and his background by the press, a great deal of information could become public, information that would inevitably lead to the discovery and subsequent destruction of the entire secret infrastructure that I am discussing here.

I do not know if the president--or any president, for that matter--has been consciously aware of the existence of this malign structure. I'm not suggesting that the Bush administration would engage in an act of terrorism to boost its popularity.

What I am suggesting is that there are elements who operate within the government, and have access to its resources, who might well do that, and who have been doing it for many years.

However, if Mr. Rove's associations in Texas are scrutinized carefully, some of these people are going to be exposed for what they are, probably to the shock and surprise of most of the administration, Rove included.

This could have happened during any previous administration from Eisenhower's on, and would have been done BY the Kennedy Administration, had he lived, or his brother.

If the public wakes up, a vast historical change could then begin to unfold. As ordinary people across the world realize that the whole system of beliefs, dogmas, ideologies, hostilities, battles and rivalries by which we live are an illusion created by a cynical leadership, and do not emerge out of the hearts of the people, it could be that mankind will refocus on the only thing that has ever mattered, from the beginning of history: that each individual obtain sufficient prosperity and happiness, in a peaceful context, to express all of his potential into the world, and taste of this life to the fullest.

This desire is the great current of human life, the vast, unstoppable river, as it were, of souls seeking to ascend into a new realm of freedom. Standing against it, and thinking of themselves as carrying the banner of a desperate elite against the torrent of a despised horde, are the inheritors of the traditions of race and entitlement that go as deep, and were briefly given voice by Adolf Hitler.

If these people do not get what they need, and fast, they are going to falter. The US midterm elections will be a catastrophe for the Christian right, and thus also for them, for they hide themselves among the many good and sincere people who give that movement its importance by their loyalty to it.

This will result in a new congress, one that is about evenly divided between moderate Republicans and Democrats, that will be willing to pursue investigations that must not be pursued, if the elite is to continue to hold sway. It will lead to a revitalization of the press, which has been in thrall to the power of government since 9/11.

It will lead, in short, to the destruction of a system that has, from the assassination of Kennedy to 911 and beyond, come within inches of the goal it has held for generations, which is domination of this planet.

Another small terrorist attack in the US will not be sufficient to stop the unraveling that is threatened. In fact, that will only weaken an administration whose one area of popularity remains its effectiveness against terrorism. No, something much larger is needed now, and the sudden expansion of discussion about the possibility of nuclear terrorism should be taken as a sign and a warning. There is great peril now. If the administration begins to collapse, and that does not seem far off, given Mr. Rove’s troubles, a gigantic terror attack on American soil would seem to be one way this malign presence might choose to shore it up.

The president will act as he did last time, doing everything he can by his own lights to help the people, and, I would hope, never imagining for a moment that elements within the government were involved in the catastrophe, any more than Bill Clinton knew that Flight 800 was an act of terrorism, or that this fact was protected by a skillfully disempowered FBI investigation.

We can only hope that they will hesitate to pull the trigger until it is too late for them to do so, in the event, by the grace of God, that time might come.

Nation In Peril

[Lesa]

The following quote rings true:

...the growth of the very “military-industrial complex” that has come to dominate American society, and has preserved itself past the cold war by manufacturing an artificial atmosphere of crisis, without regard for the welfare of the nation or the lives of its citizens, or those of any other nation.

But the rest sounds like a badly written science fiction novel.

[buttcheeks]

But the rest sounds like a badly written science fiction novel.

Everybody sing now. At the late night double feature picture show.

Maybe I've been reading too much of this stuff all over the internet.

[katina2nd]

Is this the Whitley Strieber who claims he was abducted by bug eyed little aliens who conducted experiments on him?

I don't think Le's quote ................ "But the rest sounds like a badly written science fiction novel." ..............
quite does justice to his theories, they seem more like the ramblings of a delusional mind in my opinion.

[Lesa]

Yes, they do seem like 'tinfoil' theories.

You know, I wonder if the person who coined the phrase 'tinfoil theory' was thinking of Strieber when they came up with that.

[katina2nd]

le said:

You know, I wonder if the person who coined the phrase 'tinfoil theory' was thinking of Strieber when they came up with that.

It's quite possible i'd say Gig.
To be honest though i'm not really sure if he really believes everything he says, or it's just a way of promoting himself, and making money in the process.

If you take his book "Communion" at face value though, and he claims it's factual, then it may be the former, and he may really be a bit "out there" so to speak.

[Lesa]

It's not always easy to tell the difference between fraud and insanity. Look at Dubya, who seems to believe that God actually tells him what to do.

[katina2nd]

What are you implying there Gig? You're not saying that God doesn tell the little guy what to do through a direct line are you?

[Lesa]

No, of course not. I'm sure God just calls him on his cell phone every morning to give him his orders for the day.

[rsine69]

Don't laugh at Dubya Gigs. ;D I foresee a president Jeb Bush in the future.

[Lesa]

 
Don't scare me like that, Rick!

[rsine69]

It's no joke. I honestly believe that someday he'll (Jeb) will decide to run and he'll probably get elected. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in masses who vote.

[Lesa]

 
Oh, I've seen the power of stupidity, and I don't doubt it could happen.

[buttcheeks]

If Jeb Bush runs and wins then we can refer to the three Bushes as the three stooges. Boy how dumb does that make our country look!


Well I think Whitley is a very learned individual who was minding his own business in life until these things happened to him. I don't think he is delusional but just really open to all information that is out there and tyring to make sense of it all.

I'd be more worried about ole Bush being perceived as delusional. I'd really be worried about that. When is everyone going to wake up.

[buttcheeks]

butthole said:

If Jeb Bush runs and wins then we can refer to the three Bushes as the three stooges. Boy how dumb does that make our country look!


Well I think Whitley is a very learned individual who was minding his own business in life until these things happened to him. I don't think he is delusional but just really open to all information that is out there and tyring to make sense of it all.

I'd be more worried about ole Bush being perceived as delusional. I'd really be worried about that. When is everyone going to wake up.

edited to add: Yesterday's interview was quite fascinating indeed. Here'e the guy's website:

howtosurvive2012.com/

He talks about the next deluge that happens every 12,000 years based upon the Mayan calendar. How scientists changed their thinking after the late sixties from this concept to thinking it happened about every 500,000 years. It's an interesting listen.....

[Lesa]

 
Electing a third Bush would make us look extremely dumb.

It's true, whether or not Whitley is delusional, it doesn't affect this country or this world like a delusional president does.

[Freebird]

Never, I'm sorry to say.
Theres too many stupid people out there we can't wake them all.

[Lesa]

 
Ain't that the truth. I thought for sure Dumbya was going to lose in '04 because it was painfully obvious how bad he is... or at least I thought it was obvious. I guess there are just too many people out there who are too ignorant – whether it's because they're too busy to get informed or just don't care – to see the truth. Heck, I'm always busy but I still see it.

When Dumbya was campaigning for 2000, part of his platform was, "Screw all the other countries. It's not our job to police them." But now, "It's our job to spread Democracy throughout the world." Talk about flip-flopping. Interesting goal, an Anarchist such as Dumbya wanting to spread Democracy. He doesn't want to spread Democracy throughout the world, he wants to rule it. How does he expect to spread Democracy when WE don't even live in a Democratic society and never have? We have yet to see a government that is truly for the people and by the people. Ours is for the wealthy, by the wealthy, screw the poor.

No, it's not our "job" to police the rest of the world, but if the folks who run our government can find an excuse to invade some oil-rich country, that's exactly what they'll do; and about half of America consists of those who are too blind to see it, those of the wealthy elite few who actually benefit from it, and those who just don't care.

[buttcheeks]

When Dumbya was campaigning for 2000, part of his platform was, "Screw all the other countries. It's not our job to police them." But now, "It's our job to spread Democracy throughout the world." Talk about flip-flopping. Interesting goal, an Anarchist such as Dumbya wanting to spread Democracy. He doesn't want to spread Democracy throughout the world, he wants to rule it. How does he expect to spread Democracy when WE don't even live in a Democratic society and never have? We have yet to see a government that is truly for the people and by the people. Ours is for the wealthy, by the wealthy, screw the poor.

Well the answer to the first part why he flip flopped is because he talks to God every day and God changed his mind. ;D Dumbya wants to rule the world with his Texan cowboy hat and gun and holster style. How Dumbya ever got all those right wing good upright people to buy into his deluded drivel is beyond me. People truly don't see what is going on. He keeps them busy all having babies so that there is little time to actually figure out what is going on in the world. He surrounds himself with some women making it look like he is providing opportunities for women of all races whilest he goes about his agenda of evilness.

[Lesa]

 
That is a GREAT picture of Condoleeza!

So Dumbya can change his mind because God told him to, but Kerry can't vote differently on a bill the 2nd time around after amendments he doesn't agree with are added to it. Isn't that special?

Yes, it's sad that there are so many good conservative people out there who buy into Dumbya's bull. I know quite a few good people who voted for Dumbya, and despite the facts I give them or the fact that they like the person (me) who is giving them the facts, they just won't believe it.

Just the other day I made a comment to a 17-year-old that I work with about how our administration invaded Iraq because of their oil. She quickly retorted, "Now you KNOW that's not true!" She seemed offended that I would say such a thing, and defensive of what she believes to be Bush's motives. Now, she is a sweet girl, mind you; she also likes me and I'm pretty sure she respects me as well. The point is, if I can't get through to a 17-year-old, who isn't old enough to be stuck in her ways and will consider just about anything else I tell her, then how do we get through to those who are much older, who ARE stuck in their ways and have blindly followed the conservative path all their lives no matter where it takes them?

I'm not saying that having conservative views is wrong... just that nobody should blindly follow someone because they carry the label of conservative or any other label.