If Xena Had Been Zenas

[Joxcenia]

If Xena had been a man named Zenas, how many fans would have shipped Gabrielle with Zenas?

How would your perception of Xena's treatment of Gabrielle have changed had Xena been a man named Zenas?

How would the GabDrag have been perceived? The GabChak? The lack of trust? The controlling behavior?

If a man, Zenas, had had all of the control as the 'Master,' and Gabrielle the student who wasn't trusted enough to teach everything he knows and learned? Wasn't trusted enough to tell her every detail of his past?

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Their relationship wasn't equal. Their relationship wasn't a partnership. Their relationship never surpassed that of a Master and her Student. Not even in the finale. Yes. Gabrielle was finally privy to Xena's past, to all of Xena's secrets and skills. But, she was kept in the dark about Xena's future plans. Xena kept the fact that she was going to die, and remain dead forever, from Gabrielle. She didn't give her a voice, a vote, in how their future would play out. Because they had no future as a couple. They never did. Xena was always meant to die in the end.

I've watched too many shows over the years that played the, "are they / aren't they," "will they / won't they" trope. I got so sick of this trope that I stopped investing my emotions on any characters that played this game. If it wasn't onscreen, it wasn't a thing. Even in the finale episodes, when the two FINALLY got together, I ignored it. I did not invest my emotions in any kind of relationship that didn't play out onscreen, EVER.

Even with Anthony DiNozzo and Ziva David on NCIS. Even after it was discovered that they had had a child offscreen. Nope. It never happened. It didn't happen onscreen, therefore I ignored that story line. I didn't ship them because of the "are they / aren't they," "will they / won't they" game. And I didn't ship them just because they said that Tony and Ziva had a baby offscreen. They weren't a couple onscreen, and that will be the way I will always see them.

In the commentary for, A Friend in Need, Renee mentioned that she had mostly played Gabrielle as straight, and Gabrielle and Xena as friends. That acting is what I picked up on, and why I never saw them as a couple. And if I had picked up on a potential closer relationship than friendship, the "are they / aren't they," "will they / won't they" trope game would have killed any possible shipping of them as a couple. And the finale didn't prove anything to me either. And if it had, I would have ignored it. I don't play when it comes to that kind of trope. It turns me off. WAY off.

Tony and Ziva never had a relationship. They never will. They don't have a child. They never will. But, you do you. I know there are people who love that trope. You can have it. I won't take it away from you. All I ask is that you don't take my view away from me. I was raised to share. So, I have no problem with sharing. I have a problem with those who refuse to share. You see Xena & Gabrielle as a couple. Fine. Just don't tell me I have to see them as a couple. That I can't have a differing view of how their relationship plays out. Our views can be considered parallel universes. Your Xena & Gabrielle, are not my Xena and Gabrielle.

Battle On.

[stepper]

Sept 14, 2024 22:57:36 GMT -6 Joxcenia said:

If Xena had been a man named Zenas, how many fans would have shipped Gabrielle with Zenas?
....
You see Xena & Gabrielle as a couple. Fine. Just don't tell me I have to see them as a couple. That I can't have a differing view of how their relationship plays out. .... Your Xena & Gabrielle, are not my Xena and Gabrielle.

A very cogent post my friend. I have always felt the Xena Net Forum and the on-line chat rooms were great sources of information, but then certain people asserted that they, and only they, had a legitimate POV on the series. Anyone not on board with their expressed views was an enemy who should be oppressed and quieted. Thus came the flame wars, intolerance, and the popularity of the board and chat rooms diminished. I was very happy to find Whoosh even if I was a newbie instead of being one of the old hats.

[Joxcenia]

I got blocked by the TikTok account that shares Xena clips. I said I didn’t see them as a couple. They posted a video reply of Lucy & Renee saying X&G were a couple. I said I didn’t care how they saw X&G, and that Renee had said in the FIN commentary that she mostly played Gabrielle straight. So, why wouldn’t I pick up on that, and see Gabrielle as just a friend?

I decided to drop the conversation, as I had lost my enjoyment once before due to those who don’t share. It’s the reason I stopped using Joxcenia on here, and why I created and started using Mini Mia. I’ve finally embraced being Joxcenia once again, and didn’t want to lose my enjoyment yet again. I did check to see what others were saying, and discovered I was blocked. Just before I was blocked, I was told I was homophobic.

Which ticks me off, since I’ve never had a problem with sharing. Plus, after it was discovered that a lot of fans saw X&G as a couple, there was never any real evidence that they were. Just hints every once in a while. Which as I said, is a trope I HATE with a VENGEANCE. I will not play into that trope. EVER. Plus, if Xena had been a man, I wouldn’t have shipped him and Gabrielle for two reasons.

1) Because I hate that trope. Which I’ve no doubt they would have used.

2) I wouldn’t have liked the dynamics between him and Gabrielle. It’s not a good dynamic for a couple/partner relationship. It would be like a boss taking advantage of his female employee. Their relationship would have been too unequal for them to have a true partnership. And the GabDrag would have been the death of any hope I might have been holding onto that they might eventually get together. Plus, all the other times Gabrielle was treated less than. And repeatedly kept out of the loop, disregarded, never fully trusted.

I can forgive a lot of things between friends, between a master and student, that I would never forgive between lovers. And that train of thought lead me to ask how fans would feel about X&G’s relationship if Xena had been a man. I’m sure there are fans who wouldn’t have a problem with Zenas treating Gabrielle the same way that Xena does. But, I’m not one of them.

To each their own. I can still share our love for the show. For the characters. I’ll just have to agree to disagree on what their relationship to each other is. I wish all fans could/would share. Could/Would agree to disagree.

Battle on.

[Joxcenia]

How many times did Xena put a past/present friendship/relationship before her friendship/relationship with Gabrielle? Here are two major ones I can think of:

(52/306) The Debt 12-16-99
(53/307) The Debt II 01-21-99

(133/621)Friend in Need I 11-09-01
(134/622)Friend in Need II 11-09-01



How many times did Xena put her and Gabrielle's friendship/relationship before any other friendship/relationship?

Usually, once Gabrielle was in any kind of danger, she finally took top priority. After being left behind because something more important came up that Gabrielle didn't need to be a part of for whatever reason.



What about the double standard when it came to both of their "magical" pregnancies? Gabrielle wasn't allowed a choice in either situation. Xena made the decisions on which child had to die, and which child got to live. Gabrielle didn't have a say, nor a vote.

Xena didn't take into consideration how much Gabrielle loved her child, and how hard it had been for her to poison her daughter. It doesn't matter if the child wasn't biologically Gabrielle's. Gabrielle carried her. She gave birth to her. (I find it hard to believe that a surrogate wouldn't feel some kind of motherly love for a child she carried, even when the egg and sperm came from the couple hiring her to carry & deliver their child.) Xena never took that into consideration. Gabrielle's feelings didn't matter once Xena deemed Hope evil, and not worthy to be allowed to live.

A lot of times, Gabrielle was just a doormat. Gabrielle was a student. Xena was the teacher. Master. Gabrielle was the most loyal of the two. As a friendship, the balance doesn't so much matter. As lovers, the balance absolutely does matter.

I can forgive the betrayals and mistreatments between them as friends. I would not have been able to forgive them if Xena and Gabrielle had been lovers. On screen lovers, maintext lovers, and not subtext hinted at in an episode from time to time.

Again, you do you. Your view of their relationship is not my view of their relationship. The line you draw between friends . . . between lovers . . . is your line to draw wherever you wish to draw it. That is your right. Just as I have the right to draw my line anywhere I see fit too.

Battle On!