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Post by Lesa on Oct 7, 2005 1:07:56 GMT -6
Here are a few observations from the first few episodes of season 2: Desmond injected himself with stuff from a vial that read: Whatever CR 4-81516-23 42 is supposed to do, the Rx implies that it's prescription-only stuff, although I feel that it could also be a placebo. The computer/terminal (Locke hasn't seen one of those in 20 years) appears to be an Apple II+, which was in production from June 1979 until 1983. [ Lost screenshot] [ Apple II+ Photo] [ More pictures] Wiki says it's just an Apple II (minus the +), but if you compare the II with the II+, you'll see that the white button on the left is raised on the Apple II, where the white button on the II+ is flush, and the same button on the 'terminal' is not. The orientation film said that Dharma Initiative was created in 1970. This could mean that (1) they lied about its creation, (2) the 'terminal' was replaced at some point, since it was manufactured sometime between 1979 and 1983, (3) the actual make and model of the computer isn't important and the Apple II+ was only chosen as a prop to represent an old computer, probably one that is supposed to be ahead of its time, or (4) although the Dharma Initiative was created in 1970, the station on the island hadn't been set up until quite a few years later. Although the Dharma Initiative was created in 1970, the orientation film had a copyright notice of 1980. This goes along with possibility #2 or #4 above, and begs the following question: VHS was first introduced to the US in 1977, so why did they use film instead of tape to record their orientation? "Your Own Kind of Music" - Originally performed by "Mama" Cass Elliot (who was a singer in The Mamas and The Papas) and released in 1969 on the album, "Bubblegum, Lemonade and Something for Mama." 4+8+15+16+23+42 = 108: # of minutes in the cycle before 'the numbers' are to be entered again. Possible 108 connection: The 108 Defilements of BuddhismDharma - (1) an inner sense of values, of knowing between right and wrong (2) Hindu code of religion and morals of religious and moral duty (3) The teachings of the Buddha (4) law, doctrin (5) things, events, phenomena. Another source says: Dharma is the path of righteousness and living one's life according to the codes of conduct as described by the Vedas and Upanishads. Dharma means "that which holds" the people of this world and the whole creation. It refers to the religious ethics as propounded by Hindu gurus in ancient Indian scriptures. Tulsidas, author of Ramcharitmanas, has defined the root of dharma as compassion. This principle was taken up by Lord Buddha in his immortal book of great wisdom, Dhammapada.I wonder if tptb got their idea for the Dharma logo from the S.W.A.N. organization. The Dharma logo uses the Chinese BaGua, which has to do with feng shui. [ More on that and other things] The shark that Michael apparently shot had something like the Dharma logo on its fin near its tail. Apollo Chocolate Bars really did exist but were discontinued. Apollo is also the sun god.
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Post by Forever Xena on Oct 7, 2005 1:10:38 GMT -6
My god where did you get all those ideas from LOL I am impressed
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Post by Lesa on Oct 7, 2005 1:11:40 GMT -6
The following loose transcript of the orientation film was obtained from this page. Note: 'namaste' is a greeting that I learned at yoga. Looking up its meaning just now, I found: A quick note: There were polar bears on that part of the film where they reference zoology. The "incident" that led to the new protocol and therefore the new orientation film might have damaged the old computer terminal, which they could have replaced with the Apple II+ look-alike at that time. Information on the real B. F. Skinner, who is supposed to be the inspiration behind this initiative. This definitely lends to the theory of the whole thing being a psychology experiment. There are 6 stations (3 of 6), and I think we are supposed to believe they are all on the same island. The film states that they are studying 6 things, "...meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism, and utopian social..." with Station 3 studying electromagnetism. This would explain why the symbol on the shark's fin has something other than the swan in the middle of the BaGua. Presumably, the shark would be connected with a different Dharma station on the island, perhaps zoology? And 'The Others' taking the boy, I suppose, would be parapsychology. But then, since the initiative is based on B. F. Skinner's visions, I believe that all the stations are part of a psychological, and it wouldn't exactly be an accurate study if all the lab rats were told the truth. Let's look at that Alvar Hanso picture again. Does anyone else think that looks like Locke's father (played by Kevin Tighe)? [ Comparison] Remember that Locke's father was wealthy enough to live in a mansion with a gated wall around it and a security guard, so he might even be wealthy enough to payroll the initiative. Maybe that's why Locke said they needed to watch the film again, to see if it really was his father.
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Post by Lesa on Oct 7, 2005 1:17:10 GMT -6
My god where did you get all those ideas from LOL I am impressed LOL, FX! Some things I pondered myself, other stuff I came across while researching my ponderings, and other things I started pondering after coming across other people's ponderings. ;D For instance, this just struck me after making my last post... If Hanso is Locke's father, then maybe Locke's father didn't need a kidney at all, and the whole thing was just part of an ongoing experiment. Plus, if his 'father' didn't really need that kidney or have it transplanted into him (in which case it wouldn't matter if Locke was a match, donor-wise), then maybe his 'father' isn't really his father.
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Post by Forever Xena on Oct 9, 2005 4:06:56 GMT -6
That could be something actually , like a sort of the Lord of the Flies scenario ?
See what ppl will do if left alone without an goverment , will there be anarchy , or will there quickly be someone to lead .
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Post by Lesa on Oct 9, 2005 19:52:00 GMT -6
Well, 'The Others' or whoever our guys' captors are, sure seem to have gone Lord of the Flies. Maybe that is part of the Utopian Social experiment.
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Post by Lesa on Oct 14, 2005 0:38:11 GMT -6
More on operant conditioning, I think it might have been one of B.F. Skinner's experiments:
A co-worker and I were talking about the show the other day and he told me about another experiment. There was a cage full of monkeys, with a banana hanging within reach in the middle of it. If a monkey reached for the banana, they all got doused with water.
After all the monkeys in the cage learned not to reach for the banana, they took one monkey out of the cage and replaced it with one that didn't know about the punishment. They also disconnected the water, so they would not be doused if a monkey reached for the banana. When the new monkey reached for the banana, the rest of the monkeys would beat him up, because they thought they would get doused with water. Once the new monkey stopped reaching for the banana, they took another original monkey out of the cage and replaced him with a new monkey.
When this new monkey would reach for the banana, all the monkeys would beat him up, including the first replacement monkey. Once the new monkey learned not to reach for the banana, they replaced yet another original monkey with a new monkey.
The cycle continued until there were no monkeys left from the original group, so none of the monkeys remaining in the cage had ever been doused. All the monkeys learned that the banana was off-limits, but they didn't know why, yet they continued to enforce the 'law' by beating up any monkey that would try to grab it.
If the group of monkeys had just let one of them take that banana after the water had been disconnected, nothing would have happened... but they didn't know that.
This is a lot like entering the code every 108 minutes. They don't know why they 'have' to do it, just that they were told they have to do it, with the implication that something bad would happen if they didn't.
Jack is a bit like one of those monkeys the moment it was first put into the cage. He hasn't yet been conditioned to believe in the unseen, and since he can't see any imminent danger, he initially didn't want to enter the code or push the execute button. But somehow Locke managed to put the fear into him that something bad could happen if it wasn't done, and Jack finally gave in to that fear. Better safe than sorry, right?
Desmond had been in there longer. How long, we can't be sure, but he has been in there long enough that he had grown accustomed to the idea of something bad happening if he didn't enter that code and push that execute button every 108 minutes. While he wasn't one of the original monkeys, it has been in that cage long enough to grow accustomed to it.
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Post by Forever Xena on Oct 14, 2005 0:59:46 GMT -6
Very good point !!!!
Its excactly what I believe is happening although I couldnt have put it so eloquently !
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